Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#41

Post by chrisdfrey » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

Current captive dolphins and whales are grandfathered in, so Marine Land will still keep running for a while.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#42

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:34 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #12

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

Our current Prime Minister is a big fan of making grand statements when it comes to progressive issues[1]. This is as much a message to the rest of the world as to Canadians. [1] This isn't a criticism, per se, but this propensity does tend to get Trudeau and his party into trouble. I voted for his government in the last election and fully support this law.

Yeah, to his opponents it's grandstanding overreach. To me it seems like a codifying into law a statement about where society already is - much like marijuana laws, society was already there, but now it's acknowledging that, though in this instance it's banning and that was allowing. I'm not saying everything he's doing matches that, but in this instance, it would seem to be the case.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#43

Post by marvin-83 » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:36 PM UTC

moate wrote: post #40

marvin-83 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the study that Marino & Frohoff (2011) cites for orca whale lifespan in the wild: > Using data from between 1973-4 and 1987, females have a mean life expectancy of 50.2 yr How is this possible? I don't understand how a 14 year observation window allows someone to observe an average life expectancy of 50 years.

Because they're able to tell how old the whale is when it died. They're not observing whales from birth to death in each instance. If you tried to do that, you'd be unable to speak on life expectancy on species with lifespans greater than like 10 years.

by autopsy? Or is there clear external physiology that indicates the age?

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#44

Post by debacle » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:37 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

I went to Marineland ~10 years ago and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Very poor wildlife management and obviously exploited orcas. I've heard it has gotten worse since then.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#45

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #44

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

I went to Marineland ~10 years ago and it was one of the saddest things I've ever seen. Very poor wildlife management and obviously exploited orcas. I've heard it has gotten worse since then.

Can confirm. I was there around the same time (2007), and it was sad. My wife (who grew up seeing commercials to Marineland) had always wanted to go, because it looked so fun. Was literally the worst part of the trip. She was so disappointed.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#46

Post by astura » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:46 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #8

Is there evidence all these creatures dislike captivity and would prefer fending for themselves in the wild? Genuinely curious. Not that it means anything, but dolphins have always seemed happy in captivity so long as they are being cared for appropriately.

If nothing else, orcas don't do well in captivity from a health perspective

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/2019/03/orcas-cap...

Even if they look happy during shows, the "behind the scenes" activities can be objectively very cruel.

https://www.thedodo.com/tilileaks-exclusive-documents--63986...

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#47

Post by pard68 » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #8

Is there evidence all these creatures dislike captivity and would prefer fending for themselves in the wild? Genuinely curious. Not that it means anything, but dolphins have always seemed happy in captivity so long as they are being cared for appropriately.

I rescue reptiles as a hobby. US and state laws, as well as just common sense (ie wrong biome) dictate that it is illegal to release reptiles back into the wild after they have been in captivity, my state has set a period of four weeks,after which you cannot legally return a wild caught reptile to the wild. Because of this and the rather specialized level of care needed to keep reptiles, myself and others like me end up rescuing a lot of unwanted animals. I have some lizards but generally keep turtles and consider them my "domain".

All that to say I have never met a reptile I felt would rather be in captivity. Maybe the exception is the tegu whick does seem very content to remain captive.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#48

Post by kcbanner » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

A few paragraphs in:

"Whales and dolphins that are already in captivity will be grandfathered in by the bill, meaning parks can keep all the animals they currently own."

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#49

Post by Raphmedia » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

This comes at the same time as other changes dones to improve the whales's ecosystems.

See [Whale watching excursions prohibited in part of the Saguenay-St. Lawrence Marine Park](https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1178858/parc-marin-sagu...) for example.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#50

Post by joshuahedlund » Tue, Jun 11, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

> Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere?

Might be more common than you think.

The state of Missouri passed an amendment in 2010 [1] that changed rules about a position "except counties with a population between 600,001-699,999", which just happened to only apply to Jackson County in the state. (I always assumed there was some kind of backroom dealing involved with the officials of that county.)

I can't find it now but I also think there's a similar law that used a similar population work around with a limit of 1,000,000 people, which was in danger of no longer applying to St. Louis county because the population was threatening to fall to around 999,000.

[1] https://ballotpedia.org/Missouri_Election_of_Charter_County_...