Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 185 posts

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#21

Post by kekebo »

mcv wrote: post #13
RankingMember wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not a matter of opinion that orca whales, bottlenose dolphins and beluga whales die prematurely when kept in captive settings, but rather a potent and recurring reality. Marino & Frohoff (2011) show that this is especially and most dramatically seen in the orca whale, with males living on average 29.2 years in the wild with an observed maximum of 60 years, and females living 50.2 years on average with an obse…

Would it be anthropomorphism to consider such a slide out a suicide attempt?

Ric O'Barry, former trainer of the dolphins used for the 'Flipper' TV show (now animal rights activist) tells a story in the documentary 'The Cove' how one of the dolphins swam up to him one day, looked him in the eye, took a last breath and then sank to the bottom of the tank and died [1]. Given that dolphins have to make a conscious choice for every breath they take gives some indication for a conscious decision for suicide.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20110926051048/https://blog.sfga...

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#22

Post by Zenbit_UX »

swarnie_ wrote: post #15
empath75 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scientific research loophole seems like a pretty big one.

So if you get a couple of marine biologist on your books and pump out a few papers per year the party can continue?

You can't make them perform for entertainment regardless of the loophole used to keep them.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#23

Post by maxxxxx »

kypro wrote: post #8

Is there evidence all these creatures dislike captivity and would prefer fending for themselves in the wild? Genuinely curious. Not that it means anything, but dolphins have always seemed happy in captivity so long as they are being cared for appropriately.

Not to criticize you but I remember reading similar lines in books that dealt with slavery: “they look so happy”, “they are being kept so well”. It’s probably best to always assume that the natural habitat is the best for animals.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#24

Post by marvin-83 »

RankingMember wrote: post #10
kypro wrote: post #8

Is there evidence all these creatures dislike captivity and would prefer fending for themselves in the wild? Genuinely curious. Not that it means anything, but dolphins have always seemed happy in captivity so long as they are being cared for appropriately.

> It is not a matter of opinion that orca whales, bottlenose dolphins and beluga whales die prematurely when kept in captive settings, but rather a potent and recurring reality. Marino & Frohoff (2011) show that this is especially and most dramatically seen in the orca whale, with males living on average 29.2 years in the wild with an observed maximum of 60 years, and females living 50.2 years on average with an obse…

From the study that Marino & Frohoff (2011) cites for orca whale lifespan in the wild:

> Using data from between 1973-4 and 1987, females have a mean life expectancy of 50.2 yr

How is this possible? I don't understand how a 14 year observation window allows someone to observe an average life expectancy of 50 years.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#25

Post by bunderbunder »

mcv wrote: post #13
RankingMember wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is not a matter of opinion that orca whales, bottlenose dolphins and beluga whales die prematurely when kept in captive settings, but rather a potent and recurring reality. Marino & Frohoff (2011) show that this is especially and most dramatically seen in the orca whale, with males living on average 29.2 years in the wild with an observed maximum of 60 years, and females living 50.2 years on average with an obse…

Would it be anthropomorphism to consider such a slide out a suicide attempt?

Eh. . . . yeah? I'm not sure that's a very strong criticism. We're much more similar to other mammals than we are different from them, so our understanding of human behavior provides a very strong basis for understanding other animals' behaviors.

There's a whole book about that sort of thing, by a fairly well-respected scientist in the field: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Expression_of_the_Emotions...

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#26

Post by 292355744930110 »

vallode wrote: post #6

Seems like a move in the right direction but are there any exceptions to this rule? Surely there are some dolphins being kept in captivity for good reasons (health, conservation programmes), if such is not the case I don't see much of a downside to this apart from the obvious impacts on employment in that industry...

> Whales and dolphins that are already in captivity will be grandfathered in by the bill, meaning parks can keep all the animals they currently own.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#27

Post by fatbird »

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

The Vancouver Aquarium went through this at a municipal level several years ago, ultimately moving its belugas to Marineland (they’ll now be moved to Spain). This wasn’t an issue of targeting a single park so much as finalizing in law what was already a growing consensus across Canada that had already ended several other captive cetacean programs.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#29

Post by 292355744930110 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #23
kypro wrote: post #8

Is there evidence all these creatures dislike captivity and would prefer fending for themselves in the wild? Genuinely curious. Not that it means anything, but dolphins have always seemed happy in captivity so long as they are being cared for appropriately.

Not to criticize you but I remember reading similar lines in books that dealt with slavery: “they look so happy”, “they are being kept so well”. It’s probably best to always assume that the natural habitat is the best for animals.

Whales are not humans.

Re: Canada to ban keeping whales, dolphins in captivity

#30

Post by chrisweekly »

blakesterz wrote: post #4

"Monday's vote notably impacts Marineland, the Niagara Falls amusement park and zoo that is considered the last Canadian park committed to keeping cetaceans in captivity." Wow, so they passed a national law that essentially targets just a single park? How often does that happen anywhere? (I know the back story but I never knew Marineland was the only place... not saying this is wrong or right, just surprised)

Weird; I wonder if the article was updated in the last hour since your comment -- because the lead sentence is:

> "Marineland in Niagara Falls, Ont., says new law won't impact its operations."

Post reply on HN