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Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

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Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be a form of property tax and very different from insulating your house.

That "property tax" can - in some cases - cost you 100k Euro or more.

In return you get a road to your house I suppose. That seems pretty useful. You can also do your research when purchasing a home and check how old the road is and what the local regulations are. That roads need to be redone every twenty five to forty years shouldn't come as a surprise.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#182
post #179

I have thought about this lately because my wife and I moved to Illinois so I could accept a job managing a machine learning team. I retired and now we are just now moving back to Arizona. I spent five hours yesterday watching our stuff being wrapped and put on a truck. Lots of possessions. The thing is, I have some stuff that I really like. A teak bookcase I bought in the 1970s when I got my first real job after fin…

Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. It's the rest of the stuff that can go. I helped a friend move last month. After we'd been to the 5 places she kept her stuff, we discovered she had 5 coffee machines, 5 cutting boards, 5 juicers, etc. etc. The things you describe make you happier and are not stuff. The things I described are just stuff.

> 5 places she kept her stuff

Storage unit rental, now that's a means of preying on people who can't let go and/or move often.

(It strikes me that there might be startup value in "home inventory management", although it would have to be made as frictionless as possible - wave a camera round your kitchen, inside all the cupboards, get a list of everything you own. Snoop your Amazon webpages so it can remind you not to buy things you already have.)

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you're careful" is reasonable. You wouldn't blindly buy a second hand car, you need to make sure the engine actually works etc. I suspect the careful in this case is avoiding said crappy Ikea stuff. That's not to say you shouldn't buy it 2nd hand, just make sure you pay an appropriate price. Its not an either or, you can buy second hand and keep your stuff longer.

I never said you shouldn't buy it second-hand either. Try reading the full discussion again from the top comment. It's about a different question entirely.

The early comments were about renting, and you making the reasonable point that renting furniture that can be replaced at any time promotes waste.

This is about purchasing, if you're purchasing 2nd hand you do have to be careful because you don't have the same rights etc. The "average" may be perfectly fine, just like the average second hand car is fine. I think you're reading too much into "being careful", that's all.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said you shouldn't buy it second-hand either. Try reading the full discussion again from the top comment. It's about a different question entirely.

The early comments were about renting, and you making the reasonable point that renting furniture that can be replaced at any time promotes waste. This is about purchasing, if you're purchasing 2nd hand you do have to be careful because you don't have the same rights etc. The "average" may be perfectly fine, just like the average second hand car is fine. I think you're reading too much into "being careful", that's al…

No I'm saying the discussion was still about renting, not first hand vs. second-hand. See here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20154375

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#185

Renting an apartment vs owning a house is not necessarily a bad financial move. Depends on a number of factors. For instance, if you anticipate moving within a certain time frame, between closing costs, mortgage fees, commission, etc...it can cost more to own in the first 3-5 years, especially if prices are stagnant. Also, there are hidden costs of home ownership not necessarily factored in for, like repairs, mainten…

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

Specifics, specifics. The rent vs buy debate will not be answered with finality, it always comes down to specifics. You're wrong about renting, I save a lot and invest much of it, while renting.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#186

Renting an apartment vs owning a house is not necessarily a bad financial move. Depends on a number of factors. For instance, if you anticipate moving within a certain time frame, between closing costs, mortgage fees, commission, etc...it can cost more to own in the first 3-5 years, especially if prices are stagnant. Also, there are hidden costs of home ownership not necessarily factored in for, like repairs, mainten…

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

Whether you see rental rates cheaper than a personal mortgage is extremely dependent on where you live. Many 'hot' housing markets have a big anticipation of future capital gains already priced in (rationally or otherwise) and house prices are not remotely in line with rental returns (Sydney, Australia is an example of this).

I would imagine things would be quite different and more like you say in more normal markets.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#187
post #182
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep it if it brings you happiness, after all, that's the point. It's the rest of the stuff that can go. I helped a friend move last month. After we'd been to the 5 places she kept her stuff, we discovered she had 5 coffee machines, 5 cutting boards, 5 juicers, etc. etc. The things you describe make you happier and are not stuff. The things I described are just stuff.

> 5 places she kept her stuff Storage unit rental, now that's a means of preying on people who can't let go and/or move often. (It strikes me that there might be startup value in "home inventory management", although it would have to be made as frictionless as possible - wave a camera round your kitchen, inside all the cupboards, get a list of everything you own. Snoop your Amazon webpages so it can remind you not to…

Sortly[0] might do what you're suggesting though not as simply as you described.

[0] sortly.com

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#188

Renting an apartment vs owning a house is not necessarily a bad financial move. Depends on a number of factors. For instance, if you anticipate moving within a certain time frame, between closing costs, mortgage fees, commission, etc...it can cost more to own in the first 3-5 years, especially if prices are stagnant. Also, there are hidden costs of home ownership not necessarily factored in for, like repairs, mainten…

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

The houses you rent are not economically the same as the houses you buy and live in.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. This comparison is usually apples to oranges. For example, in Austin, a 20s-30s homebuyer may have a budget of 300-400k for a property. This amount pretty much limits the options to homes on the edge of town or in suburbs. The same person may prefer renting in or near downtown, if they aren’t buying, and that could cost just as much as a mortgage on a much larger ho…

That's because Austin (and Denver and Seattle for that matter) are basically SF Lite. Pick any city that isn't having it's housing market turned upside down by California monopoly money (well, tech monopoly money) and you statement does not apply.

Re: Owning nothing is now a luxury, thanks to a number of subscription startups

#190
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Finally, one can use the savings from paying rent What savings? Rent as you stated already includes anticipated maintenance costs, property taxes, the landlord's mortgage costs, often an agency fee, plus a margin for the landlord. I don't think I've seen rental rates ever cheaper than a personal mortgage. The main advantage of renting is avoiding long-term commitment but you'll pay a premium for that flexibility. O…

I don't know what it's like in the US, but in Sweden you can get a much better deal on your mortgage if you only have to borrow 80% of the cost of the house than if you have to borrow 95+%, even when borrowing the same amount. If you have a good job and can afford $1500/month but don't have any savings to use as a down payment on a house you're not going to able to get as nice a place buying as you will renting.

They recently changed the lower limit of the down payment to 15% in Sweden. But yes, you'll generally get a better interest rate if you put more of your own money into the purchase.

As a Swede in the middle of buying a house in the U.S. I have to say it's surprisingly similar.

The big differences between Sweden and the U.S. is the loan terms. Here in the U.S. the terms are extremely long, you'll typically get 10, 15 or 30 years with a locked interest rate. In Sweden you'd normally lock your rate for 1-5 years up to 10 years depending on your financial situation. When I owned a condo in Sweden I went for 1 year locked rate and then month-to-month once that first year passed. What you have instead of a fixed term is a fixed amortization. By law you have to pay back 2%/year until your principle is down to 70%, 1% until it's down to 50% and after that you can just pay interest if that's what you want to do.

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