NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media • Hacker News Board

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#41

Post by scotchio » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 10:45 PM UTC

dickeytk wrote: post #36

scotchio wrote: post #21

To be fair... The front page of Hacker News is pretty much a Google hate hangoutfest -- so maybe cut some slack on this one... I'm sure the NYT reporter was not acting malicious. Maybe they will even issue correction or update in time. No one would argue that speed of social media and corrections is not ideal, but I would bet they are trying to be accurate and transparent with their readers. I just seriously doubt th…

HN shouldn’t be held to the same standard as NYT for journalistic integrity

Agree and wasn't really saying that

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#42

Post by weberc2 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 10:47 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #39

Google spreads way more misniformation than nyt, they aren't worth defending.

It's not a dichotomy, we can and must hold both accountable. This race-to-the-bottom thinking is ruinous.

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#43

Post by xnyan » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 10:50 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #14

The NYT also deliberately blurs the lines between any kind of non-leftist thinking (traditional conservative views, non-left liberal thinking, criticism of Islam or illegal immigration) and 'alt right' - a term created by Richard Spencer, a white nationalist who wants to create a white ethnostate which (at least according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right ) describes far right hate groups. I know p…

That's funny, I see the NYT as a mid-conservative publisher that regularly equates modern leftist thought with communism in defense of their rich conservative owners. NYT regularly normalizes far-right fascists and runs over moderately liberal thinkers.

I also know people who work at the NYT who share this view. Maybe it's our priors having more influence on our thought than we think, but NYT owners are the among the most wealthy so I tend to believe basic psychological principles/people acting in their own interest is what is closest to truth.

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#44

Post by Macross8299 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #12

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WMD comes to mind.

That has more with W's threats to cut off press room access to anyone who wouldn't stick to the patriotic script they wanted everyone to follow.

Is "losing press room access" supposed to be some understandable defense of knowingly deceiving the public into a war?

Doesn't seem all that different from the days of William Randolph Hearst.

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#45

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 10:59 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #31

noetic_techy wrote: post #7

The New York Times is no longer the steady unbias pillar it once was. They hire fresh out SJW types to do their writing and it shows. Once I finally came to that realization, I stopped taking them seriously, but I feel others have not quite reached that epiphany yet. Keep in mind they almost went bankrupt if it were not for Carlos Slim bailing them out. Then you saw a bunch of praise pieces about Slim, and you realiz…

What is the "SJW" position on Google?

[deleted]

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#46

Post by dbt00 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 11:06 PM UTC

xnyan wrote: post #43

nailer wrote: post #14

The NYT also deliberately blurs the lines between any kind of non-leftist thinking (traditional conservative views, non-left liberal thinking, criticism of Islam or illegal immigration) and 'alt right' - a term created by Richard Spencer, a white nationalist who wants to create a white ethnostate which (at least according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right ) describes far right hate groups. I know p…

That's funny, I see the NYT as a mid-conservative publisher that regularly equates modern leftist thought with communism in defense of their rich conservative owners. NYT regularly normalizes far-right fascists and runs over moderately liberal thinkers. I also know people who work at the NYT who share this view. Maybe it's our priors having more influence on our thought than we think, but NYT owners are the among the…

NYT straddles a line between being institutionally conservative while having a majority liberal staff and subscriber base. It creates pattern matching hits for both sides. MSNBC has similar issues.

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#47

Post by jrochkind1 » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

> After quoting the head of the News Media Alliance, David Chavern, as saying newspapers deserve a cut of that $4.7 billion,

> One of the most glaring omissions from the report, mentioned by a number of media-industry observers, is the ad revenue newspapers generate from the pageviews they get via Google News and Google search. The search company says publishers get more than 10 billion clicks every month (the value of which differs depending on the publisher). When asked for comment, the NMA tells CJR the purpose of the report was to look at how much Google benefits from news, not the opposite.

Uh, so it sounds like Google deserves a cut of the ad revenue directed via Google News then.

Man, there's no trustworthy journalism left, is there?

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#48

Post by wpasc » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

scotchio wrote: post #27

darawk wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but they published something that confirmed their priors, and didn't due their due diligence on it because it confirmed their priors and was the kind of story they wanted to write. They have to be held to account for that.

Agree. Just don't see it as malicious

Perhaps not malicious, but publishing a more or less BS story to fit a narrative is not far from malicious on the spectrum of intention (especially if the narrative is in the NYT's business interests).

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#49

Post by moorhosj » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #14

The NYT also deliberately blurs the lines between any kind of non-leftist thinking (traditional conservative views, non-left liberal thinking, criticism of Islam or illegal immigration) and 'alt right' - a term created by Richard Spencer, a white nationalist who wants to create a white ethnostate which (at least according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right ) describes far right hate groups. I know p…

What’s the basis for this claim? Where do Ross Douthat and David Brooks fit in your model?

Re: NYT promotes questionable study on Google and the media

#50

Post by shereadsthenews » Mon, Jun 10, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

This is why I unsubd from the NYT and why it makes me sad: 99% solid journalism but 1% hot garbage is not a good enough ratio. Just in my adult lifetime this newspaper has materially contributed to both the Iraq War and the election of Trump, and now they use their paper to try to destroy me industry because their industry, which for decades was an abusive cartel exploiting advertisers, is having an angry death fit. I wish there were more outlets for journalism that don't have old-media baggage.