Live data from Hacker News

Let’s Publish Everything

statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu

11–20 of 29 posts

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#11
I am in sympathy with the author's goals but the major problem with publishing everything on arXiv like forums is that: (i) it becomes impossible to sort out the good stuff from the nonsense produced by cranks, and (ii) it unfairly advantages "high profile" groups.

Today, if I have a grad student interested in security who wants some ideas for things to work on, I could ask them to go look up papers in Oakland, CCS and NDSS over the last couple of years and see if anything catches their fancy. This works because there's a reasonable number of papers that I could reasonably expect a PhD student to look through. Asking them to look up all the stuff that ends up on arXiv or the IACR's ePrints is not reasonable. There's just too much stuff there and most of it is not worth looking at that.

So, you might say the endorsements will take care of this. CCS et al. could just endorse some limited subset of the IACR ePrints. But this leads to problem (ii) above. Right now, we have a bunch of high-profile researchers (who are mostly at places like MIT and Stanford) who just put up stuff on arXiv without any peer review and they start picking-up citations right away because of their "elite" status. Some of this is deserved, because these people have done good work. But some of this is also just a publication cartel where everybody cites their friends' work and make it impossible for others to break into a field.

The larger point is that in a scenario where there are so many papers that nobody could possibly look at all of them will lead to a few groups accumulating all the citations and all the awards. This will especially be unfair to researchers in the developing world -- people at places like Bilikent, Tsinghua, and the IITs -- where researchers don't have the PR muscle power to highlight unpublished stuff.

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#12

>>> Publishing in Psychological Science and PNAS has value because these journals reject a lot of papers. That seems to be the crux - scientific papers will have to fall into two camps "blogs or basically deciphering the lab notes of everyone in your field" and "look this is a real effect and worthy of your attention" People seem to want the second without wading through the first - but i don't think you can

For PNAS, I've heard, getting sponsored by a NAS member greatly increases chances for publication. So it seems an odd example to cite for "value".

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#13
post #7
post #4

The same thing is trying to happen in scientific publication that's been happening in every other published medium: scarcity is gone. So why not embrace the abundance? Well if there's any contrary case to be made, it's that the explosion in quantity inevitably reduces the average quality. In the arts, low quality corresponds to that ineffable quality of shittiness . In news, it's fakeness. In science, it's irreproduc…

(I agree with the parent poster, but this seems like the right place to add the following.) One thing that people who claim "the scarcity is gone, let's just publish everything" do miss is that there still is a scarcity: The time and attention of researchers. Let me expand a bit on that from my own field of studying reconnection in astrophysical plasma. As you can tell from the description it is not a well defined cl…

Great insight, thanks! It sounds like AI could play a part here in order to achieve the required efficiency, e.g. sorting out the right papers for you.

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#14
post #7
post #4

The same thing is trying to happen in scientific publication that's been happening in every other published medium: scarcity is gone. So why not embrace the abundance? Well if there's any contrary case to be made, it's that the explosion in quantity inevitably reduces the average quality. In the arts, low quality corresponds to that ineffable quality of shittiness . In news, it's fakeness. In science, it's irreproduc…

(I agree with the parent poster, but this seems like the right place to add the following.) One thing that people who claim "the scarcity is gone, let's just publish everything" do miss is that there still is a scarcity: The time and attention of researchers. Let me expand a bit on that from my own field of studying reconnection in astrophysical plasma. As you can tell from the description it is not a well defined cl…

The same is true within IT, you need to read a lot to make sure you're in the loop.

I think it correlates to map structures, if every point in a map is connected to every other point there will be a large surface for each point in the beginning but as the amount of points grow the surface (of possible attention in this case) will shrink.

How much area of attention is needed to perform the best in a creative research, to produce the best work in a given time? Maybe the answer to that question will yield more papers with better quality.

My personal belief is that we need to dream more and do less work to make sure the work that is done is of more quality such that no filtration is needed and we can truly publish everything.

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#15
I believe that there is a misunderstanding regarding the role of academic publishing. Before the Internet era, the only way to make your work known to other scientists was to publish it in a journal—prestigious if possible. Journals were a medium to spread scientific information and make it available.

Nowadays the situation is very much different. For example, there are preprint repositories such as arXiv where researchers can publish papers with very little oversight[1]. The journals don't serve the role of making information available anymore. Their main role is to act as a filter for scientific information, and the reputation of a journal signals whether it's a high-pass or a low-pass filter. Researchers want to publish in prestigious journals since it signals that their work is high quality, and it gives greater exposure to their work—prestigious journals have a broader reader base than unknown journals.

This considered, the author got a point. In experimental domains of science such as Biology, Physics, Chemistry, Psychology (and sometimes even Math! [2]), reproducibility is of paramount importance and publishing negative results helps both researchers save time by not doing repeated work and avoid statistical bias in meta studies.

In fact, what the author of this article implicitly looks for already exists![3] But they usually fail to gain traction, and this for a precise reason: writing and publishing a paper takes a great amount of time. Publishing a paper in favor of the null hypothesis usually does not bring much recognition, and the time could instead be used to research or write the next paper.

What can be done then? A solution could be to create a platform where scientific results can be made available without the whole publishing overload. No literature review, no verbose explanations, only "what we did" and "what we got". And if possible, in a machine-readable format. Any fellow HNers?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArXiv#Controversy

[2] https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.0749

[3] http://www.jasnh.com/

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#16
post #11

I am in sympathy with the author's goals but the major problem with publishing everything on arXiv like forums is that: (i) it becomes impossible to sort out the good stuff from the nonsense produced by cranks, and (ii) it unfairly advantages "high profile" groups. Today, if I have a grad student interested in security who wants some ideas for things to work on, I could ask them to go look up papers in Oakland, CCS a…

> I could ask them to go look up papers in Oakland, CCS and NDSS over the last couple of years and see if anything catches their fancy.

Isn't this exactly the major thing that is wrong with research today? Limiting work/creativity to a few well known conferences done by elites for elites? I read blog posts, posted daily here on HN, that are way more informative, honest, and replicable than many papers published in the three conferences you named.

> "elite" status. Some of this is deserved, because these people have done good work. But some of this is also just a publication cartel where everybody cites their friends' work and make it impossible for others to break into a field.

Elite status happens exactly because there are conferences like the ones you mentioned. If you work with an advisor that publishes in Oakland, your chances of getting a paper in Oakland gets increased multiplicatively. And hint, that's not because your ideas (or papers) are better than anybody else's.

> The larger point is that in a scenario where there are so many papers that nobody could possibly look at all of them will lead to a few groups accumulating all the citations and all the awards.

This is already happening. Look at all the "prestigious" conferences.

> where researchers don't have the PR muscle power to highlight unpublished stuff.

Who cares? If the work is worth anything, people will cite it. If not, it will remain as is. Why does it matter? Why do you care if 10 people cited your work or 100 people if you are happy with the work?

Unfortunately, nobody in this forsaken field (computer science) cares about the scientific aspect of the field anymore; everybody wants their name to be known and that's all there is to it. The measure of success is how many papers you publish in elite conferences ...

I do actually think that by breaking down all the barriers people care less about having their name in conference X or Y and more about the scientific aspect or citation cartels. First one is good, second one can be fixed (at least more easily than giving a few elites lots of power with no checks and balances).

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#17
post #12

>>> Publishing in Psychological Science and PNAS has value because these journals reject a lot of papers. That seems to be the crux - scientific papers will have to fall into two camps "blogs or basically deciphering the lab notes of everyone in your field" and "look this is a real effect and worthy of your attention" People seem to want the second without wading through the first - but i don't think you can

For PNAS, I've heard, getting sponsored by a NAS member greatly increases chances for publication. So it seems an odd example to cite for "value".

Its more that NAS members can publish some articles basically for free, so co-authoring with them is a good way to get in easier.

That being said, NAS members I know do not want to erode their reputation by publishing junk.

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#18
post #7
post #4

The same thing is trying to happen in scientific publication that's been happening in every other published medium: scarcity is gone. So why not embrace the abundance? Well if there's any contrary case to be made, it's that the explosion in quantity inevitably reduces the average quality. In the arts, low quality corresponds to that ineffable quality of shittiness . In news, it's fakeness. In science, it's irreproduc…

(I agree with the parent poster, but this seems like the right place to add the following.) One thing that people who claim "the scarcity is gone, let's just publish everything" do miss is that there still is a scarcity: The time and attention of researchers. Let me expand a bit on that from my own field of studying reconnection in astrophysical plasma. As you can tell from the description it is not a well defined cl…

This very site is an example of a way to handle abundant content.

"Post all of the things" doesn't mean that content shouldn't be prioritized. The process is just asynchronous. It avoids abuse in specialized fields where a low number of experts are the gateway to publication.

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#19
post #7
post #4

The same thing is trying to happen in scientific publication that's been happening in every other published medium: scarcity is gone. So why not embrace the abundance? Well if there's any contrary case to be made, it's that the explosion in quantity inevitably reduces the average quality. In the arts, low quality corresponds to that ineffable quality of shittiness . In news, it's fakeness. In science, it's irreproduc…

(I agree with the parent poster, but this seems like the right place to add the following.) One thing that people who claim "the scarcity is gone, let's just publish everything" do miss is that there still is a scarcity: The time and attention of researchers. Let me expand a bit on that from my own field of studying reconnection in astrophysical plasma. As you can tell from the description it is not a well defined cl…

Interesting. This seems to correlate almost exactly with discovery in music streaming too. Given the torrent of new music available, how do you discover the new music that you like?

At the moment, AI is doing a pretty bad job of this - my Spotify Discover Weekly is an interesting listen, but I know it's not the best selection of new music out there suited to my tastes (to be fair, it's not really trying to be that, though). My "recommended" list on Netflix bores me. I get why they're recommending them, but it's all things that I've seen and rejected from My List, rather than things that I would find genuinely new and interesting.

I think this is the next big problem to solve, for everyone. The combination of Discoverability (how do I get my music/paper/novel/art/film discovered by the audience of people who will like it?) and Search (how do I find new music/papers/novels/art/film that suit my tastes/research subject?).

Re: Let’s Publish Everything

#20
post #18
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I agree with the parent poster, but this seems like the right place to add the following.) One thing that people who claim "the scarcity is gone, let's just publish everything" do miss is that there still is a scarcity: The time and attention of researchers. Let me expand a bit on that from my own field of studying reconnection in astrophysical plasma. As you can tell from the description it is not a well defined cl…

This very site is an example of a way to handle abundant content. "Post all of the things" doesn't mean that content shouldn't be prioritized. The process is just asynchronous. It avoids abuse in specialized fields where a low number of experts are the gateway to publication.

This site works ok to find content that is intersting to a large community. The problem in science is "how do you find content for the 5 people working on problem X". For every X.
Post reply on HN