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Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

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Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#21

I'm using Emacs for my daily tasks, both writing and programming. One question I have to more experienced Emacs users: Can you recommend an email client? It needs to be able to display html mails. Currently, I use claws-mail and am fairly happy with it, except for the search. I've got about 30,000 mails in the inbox and full-text searching them takes too long. Is there a way to transition my claws-mail folders to Ema…

Notmuch is excellent. I guess if your email is in maildir format, you can use it directly within Notmuch.

One thing that sets Notmuch apart from other MUAs is that it never ever touches your email files.

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#22

I love Emacs. For all of its warts, "historical reasons", and vestigal features, it is the editor that really opened my eyes to alternative ways to do introspection and programming, in general. I want to believe the friction comes if you try to "fix" Emacs too early. You kinda have to conform to the Emacs way when learning it and leave all of your assumptions at the door. I see a lot of people who come to Emacs from…

> I see a lot of people who come to Emacs from Vim expecting Evil Mode to be the panacea for Emacs. It's not. At the end of the day, it's still Emacs

Yes. I've been Emacs guy for close to two decades now, and switched to Evil about four years ago, because Vim controls are just better, no two ways about it. However you still need to escape back into Emacs every now and then to do various un-Evil'd tidbits. That's easy for me, but would be problematic for someone who expects Evil to (as you put it) "fix Emacs".

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#24
post #19

No thanks. I've had several bouts of trying to learn emacs throughout my life. It isn't necessary to list all the benefits, sure, there's a lot. Yes, I get it's "extensible" and you can write little elisp programs to do just what you want. Here's the obstacle: Motor skills. It just takes way to long to first memorize reams of commands and then to train your fingers to issue those commands effortlessly. In the meantim…

I had a similar experience to yours until I realized that the extensible part also means you don't need to use the builtin commands and shortcuts. I have been using emacs for 10 years (used vim for about 12 before that, using emacs with evil-mode now) and, to this day, I have to google 'how to quit emacs' when I am faced with a vanilla emacs :) I just feel it's "my" editor more than any other editor I've ever used. e…

I’ve basically used Hydra (as opposed to Evil) for creating a series of mappings that make sense for me.

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#25

I recently tried to switch from vim to Emacs with spacemacs. I enjoyed it until I discovered Emacs has no support for tabs (ui tabs, not the character ;). I went back to vim mainly due to that, but still miss magit....

If you want to try again, just install the "tabbar" package (in MELPA, and in most Linux distributions too). Like most things with Emacs if it's not built-in there's likely a package for it.

Emacs is kind of like an editor construction kit with a basic sample, and making your own Emacs variant is part of the experience IMHO. It's not to everyone taste of course (and that's ok). If not, there are Emacs distributions like spacemacs but their choices can't fit each person perfectly.

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#26
post #19

No thanks. I've had several bouts of trying to learn emacs throughout my life. It isn't necessary to list all the benefits, sure, there's a lot. Yes, I get it's "extensible" and you can write little elisp programs to do just what you want. Here's the obstacle: Motor skills. It just takes way to long to first memorize reams of commands and then to train your fingers to issue those commands effortlessly. In the meantim…

I had a similar experience to yours until I realized that the extensible part also means you don't need to use the builtin commands and shortcuts. I have been using emacs for 10 years (used vim for about 12 before that, using emacs with evil-mode now) and, to this day, I have to google 'how to quit emacs' when I am faced with a vanilla emacs :) I just feel it's "my" editor more than any other editor I've ever used. e…

> I just feel it's "my" editor more than any other editor I've ever used.

So true! When I first tried to get into Emacs it was as a somewhat seasoned programmer who wanted to play with a Lisp other than Scheme. I've read the built-in tutorial and almost ran away in horror. I get it - for non-programmer users, yes, it makes sense to try to teach them the usage of an editor. I lost quite a lot of time trying to remember exotic chords like C-u C-x ^ a and so on, but it was ultimately meaningless - not one such shortcut remains in my config.

Emacs is an IDE for Emacs Lisp written in Emacs Lisp (and it's incredibly powerful at that, BTW). In other words, it's a bunch of APIs you can call, and it also gives you the place where you can interactively execute any elisp code and see the effects immediately in the same instance of the editor. It's obvious in hindsight, but I believe I'd get into Emacs much faster if I started with Emacs Lisp manual or maybe "Writing GNU Emacs Extensions" book instead of going through the Emacs manual (huuuuuge!) first and trying to bend my habits to fit the vanilla Emacs.

I think most programmers who wish to switch to Emacs should try to do it the other way: start with learning Elisp syntax and Paredit, then learn about modes, hooks, and key-maps and start hacking your own config. Everything else - buffers, windows, fringes, faces, what-have-you - you'll learn as needed when you need to implement a particular command which deals with them. Pull in a healthy amount of plugins then read their source - or just read the source of Emacs, as you can jump to definition of any function in one click, even if it's written in C - and before long you'll have a comfortable environment to work in, with all the features you learned to love from your previous editor. And that's when the fun part start: exploring Emacs features that you've never seen or heard about, wrapping external tools and streamlining their workflows, exploring the huge pile of add-ons.

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a similar experience to yours until I realized that the extensible part also means you don't need to use the builtin commands and shortcuts. I have been using emacs for 10 years (used vim for about 12 before that, using emacs with evil-mode now) and, to this day, I have to google 'how to quit emacs' when I am faced with a vanilla emacs :) I just feel it's "my" editor more than any other editor I've ever used. e…

> I just feel it's "my" editor more than any other editor I've ever used. So true! When I first tried to get into Emacs it was as a somewhat seasoned programmer who wanted to play with a Lisp other than Scheme. I've read the built-in tutorial and almost ran away in horror. I get it - for non-programmer users, yes, it makes sense to try to teach them the usage of an editor. I lost quite a lot of time trying to remembe…

This is excellent advice. I may make another go at it.

Like you, I've tried before. After a day or two of trying to remember alt-command-blah-blah-blah every time I wanted to do something simple, I gave up. Then I started mousing around which totally defeated the purpose of trying to pick it up.

I also found (at least 7-8 years ago) the windows Emacs to be terribly slow. Hopefully that's not still true. That also effectively kills the learning experience after a while.

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#28

I recently tried to switch from vim to Emacs with spacemacs. I enjoyed it until I discovered Emacs has no support for tabs (ui tabs, not the character ;). I went back to vim mainly due to that, but still miss magit....

> until I discovered Emacs has no support for tabs (ui tabs, not the character ;)

It may not be built-in, but saying Emacs "has no support" for tabs when there are at least three (if not more) plugins which provide them is a stretch. Personally, I use elscreen, but forked and changed so that tabs are displayed in a reserved window instead of on the header line.

There are some lacking features in terms of GUI display, especially compared to newer editors, but other than that Emacs supports the widest array of features and sometimes even a couple competing implementations for them.

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#29

I'm using Emacs for my daily tasks, both writing and programming. One question I have to more experienced Emacs users: Can you recommend an email client? It needs to be able to display html mails. Currently, I use claws-mail and am fairly happy with it, except for the search. I've got about 30,000 mails in the inbox and full-text searching them takes too long. Is there a way to transition my claws-mail folders to Ema…

> Another thing is org-mode. [...] Can someone recommend a good "light" tutorial for it? What are you using it for?

I would recommend starting using Org just for note taking, using its outline capabilities. It's simple and avoid being overwhelmed and buried in features. One tutorial for this is [1], but even then it has advanced parts you can ignore at first. There are many Org tutorials, at some point it's best to just pick one and dive in instead of looking for the best one and ending up paralyzed by choice (a problem sometimes with Org and Emacs...).

Then once familiar with this you can extend your usage in various directions: add TODO and agenda for GTD, use it to export to nice web pages with a "read the doc" theme [2], etc.

[1] https://sachachua.com/blog/2008/01/outlining-your-notes-with...

[2] https://github.com/fniessen/org-html-themes

Re: Buying into the Emacs Platform (2018)

#30

I recently tried to switch from vim to Emacs with spacemacs. I enjoyed it until I discovered Emacs has no support for tabs (ui tabs, not the character ;). I went back to vim mainly due to that, but still miss magit....

You can have many things going at the same time, and select between them using the buffer menu. I find the devotion of yet another chunk of screen real estate to the tab list rather a waste, but shrug aesthetics. C-x C-b shows you the list of tabs ("buffers") and lets you select from them easily. As a bonus, the title portion isn't compressed to incomprehensibility when they get numerous.

I use tabs to switch between window configurations.

Say I code in Python, with docs and shell windows on the right. Then I want to quickly take a look at git history. But, if I start magit, it will hijack the window configuration and my carefully placed/resized windows will get messy. So, I open a new tab and start magit there. Now, I can switch between the two tabs - ie. window/buffer layouts - with a single key.

The fact that I mention saving the layout of windows should hint that I know you can do this in vanilla Emacs by saving and restoring window configurations, but it's much less hassle with tabs. Also, you can hide tab bar (as well as menu bar and button bar) when you don't need it, and it's actually quite handy when you do need it.

To each their own of course, just saying there are good uses for tabs in Emacs, unless you want to delegate this to your WM and launch one frame per window config.

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