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Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

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Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#21

Post by lloeki »

krn wrote: post #8
saagarjha wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram violates multiple open source licenses, so I wouldn’t hold it up as an example.

> Telegram violates multiple open source licenses Any examples for those who would like to learn more about this?

Interested too.

There seems to be a lot of Telegram bashing but every assertion I saw eventually failed to be backed up†, if at all attempted. This ends up triggering my BS detector every single time, and the significant influx of such occurrences makes me think of some astroturfing/FUD campaign.

† I also do my homework when fact checking, but failed to turn up anything relevant, only more non-backed up assertions or obviously inflated beyond proportion facts twisted beyond recognition. I may very well miss something, that's why if backing up material is known by the detractors it's always worthwhile to share (which applies to any pro/con discussion really)

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#22

Post by pzmarzly »

jmkni wrote: post #6

I'd love to know just how different/bare bones AOSP (Android Open Source Project) is to regular Android. As an experiment, I'd love to compile it, put it on a spare phone and use it as my daily driver for a week.

I was using clean LineageOS for over 2 years, recently switching to LineageOS+microG. I'm using APKPure and F-Droid for apps, Chrome for browsing (as in Firefox, last time I checked, one tap separates you from losing all open tabs). Some apps refuse to work or break (e.g. Bitwarden does not sync), some have degraded functionality (e.g. WhatsApp sometimes does not ring when someone is calling you), many are just spamming "This program will not run without Google Play Services" (but there is Xposed module called something like "This program will run" that gets rid of these). In case of Google Maps, I'm using old version (9.69.1), and for Youtube, I'm using NewPipe.

Overall I liked the experience, battery life (especially with greenify) was amazing.

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#23

Post by shawnz »

I think this is misleading. To me it seems the issue is that app developers are being forced to use the proprietary Firebase service, but they are NOT being forced to use a proprietary library from what I can tell. The library in fact DOES have an open source version available: https://firebaseopensource.com/projects/firebase/firebase-an...

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#24

Post by tannhaeuser »

userbinator wrote: post #10
geofft wrote: post #2

You can still write free software that uses it and produces a not-entirely-free artifact when compiled, though, right? (Is there a distribution restriction on the artifact, or is it impermissible to link it with GPL apps, or something?) I'm curious if the free software apps are compelled not to link it to preserve the free software status of their code, or just voluntarily refusing on principle (which is laudable, to…

Thought experiment: write an application that automatically downloads and combines code with all sorts of legally incompatible licenses to create an application and installs it on an Android device. If personally doing it is legal (and basically unenforceable), what about making it easy for others to? Besides, unless you're a "radical Stallmanist" (for lack of better term), chances are you have a mix of proprietary a…

IANAL, but I think that would be regarded as a circumvention device by a court. I hope you're not basing your opinion regarding laws entirely on this contrived case :)

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#25

Post by saagarjha »

krn wrote: post #8
saagarjha wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram violates multiple open source licenses, so I wouldn’t hold it up as an example.

> Telegram violates multiple open source licenses Any examples for those who would like to learn more about this?

I have a thing I’m writing that will go into more detail, but in short Telegram’s client applications (which are licensed under various incarnations of the GPL) are updated frequently while the source code in their publicly available repositories lags far behind. In addition, they use a number of open source libraries that at the very least require attribution, but Telegram does not follow their terms.

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#26

Post by kartan »

> Problem: The Firebase Android client library is proprietary, meaning FOSS apps can not use it. Apps that do not comply are reported to the user as "using too much battery".

This is a standard on the industry. From 1999: https://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/11/05/how_ms_played_the_i...

It doesn't matter how much money Google is going to have to pay in the future as a fine for this practice. The amount of money that they will get for kicking out the competition is going to be way higher. That is a learned lesson from Microsoft (and probably others before them).

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#27

Post by kbumsik »

I'm not an Android dev, but according to the source in the article [1] this limitation is applied since Oreo, which is released two years ago. Why this problem arises today?

[1]: https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS/blob/mas...

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#28

Post by icebraining »

shawnz wrote: post #23

I think this is misleading. To me it seems the issue is that app developers are being forced to use the proprietary Firebase service, but they are NOT being forced to use a proprietary library from what I can tell. The library in fact DOES have an open source version available: https://firebaseopensource.com/projects/firebase/firebase-an...

From what I can tell, you need firebase-messaging, which doesn't seem to be on that list. Am I reading it wrong?

Edit: seems I was reading correctly: https://github.com/firebase/firebase-android-sdk/issues/125#...

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#29

Post by saagarjha »

icebraining wrote: post #9
saagarjha wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram violates multiple open source licenses, so I wouldn’t hold it up as an example.

Irrelevant; they can still sue the Telegram-FOSS team, even if they are themselves in violation of other licenses.

I’m not fully aware of the situation regarding Telegram-FOSS, but I’d assume Telegram can sue them for license violations regarding code that they own the rights to.

Re: Android now forces apps to include proprietary code for push notifications

#30

Post by saagarjha »

lloeki wrote: post #21
krn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Telegram violates multiple open source licenses Any examples for those who would like to learn more about this?

Interested too. There seems to be a lot of Telegram bashing but every assertion I saw eventually failed to be backed up†, if at all attempted. This ends up triggering my BS detector every single time, and the significant influx of such occurrences makes me think of some astroturfing/FUD campaign. † I also do my homework when fact checking, but failed to turn up anything relevant, only more non-backed up assertions or…

I’m doing the research work for you, though it’ll be a while before I can stop procrastinating for long enough to write a whole thing about it. While you wait, https://github.com/overtake/TelegramSwift/issues/163 is probably a good start.
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