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Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

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Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#101

Post by kiostech »

hkai wrote: post #5

Just finished the 8 hour march. That was insane. But the law is even more insane. A North Korea-like totalitarian state that puts people in camps can just snatch any lawyer, businessman our journalist and take them away without trial and without revealing their location. Imagine people at startups working in sensitive areas like DNA testing, biotech, finance or data mining can be taken away and forced to reveal data,…

Same here, I am a Hong Konger. There are more 1 million people in this protest. The protest started at 2:30 pm in Victoria Park and ended at 10:00 pm in the Central Government Offices.

Personally, I think the Chinese Central Government won't recall the Extradition Law. But as a Hong Konger, I can proudly say that: We do our best to show the world, showing the Hong Kong spirit.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#102

Post by isaaafc »

yskchu wrote: post #26
ETHisso2017 wrote: post #16

> The latest proposal has come after a 19-year-old Hong Kong man allegedly murdered his 20-year-old pregnant girlfriend while they were holidaying in Taiwan together in February last year. The man fled Taiwan and returned to Hong Kong last year. > Taiwanese officials have sought help from Hong Kong authorities to extradite the man, but Hong Kong officials say they cannot comply because of the lack of an extradition a…

This article has a nice infographic: https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/arti... Basically Hong Kong right now, has a whole bunch of extradition treaties with 20 countries[1], just not with both China governments, due to the existing law. The bill fixes this. Also, the 19 year old HK man admitted to the crime [2], however due to the the crime being committed outside HK, he can't be tried for mansl…

> However if this bill is passed he can be extradited and tried for murder in Taiwan.

Taiwan clearly stated that they wouldn't extradite the man under this bill. This is the exact lie the government has been telling to mislead people who don't follow the news.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#103

Post by isaaafc »

The HK government's response: https://www.news.gov.hk/eng/2019/06/20190609/20190609_231141...

The English and Chinese versions looks pretty different in tone, especially in the last sentence: 'Noting that the Second Reading debate on the bill will resume on June 12, the Government urged the Legislative Council to scrutinise the bill in a calm, reasonable and respectful manner to help ensure Hong Kong remains a safe city for residents and business.'

Understandable when this is for foreign press. Directly translated, the Chinese version says: 'The Second Reading debate on the bill will resume on June 12. End. '. Obnoxious if you understand Chinese.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#104

Post by _yuow »

emj wrote: post #79
wltprgm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because you seem to just be here to argue. You are right. I should change my tone. > You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. I think I have made my point even though it was harsh. This thread is about protest in Hong Kong, and what the list of accusations (as you said) don't spread too far away, since it relates to the same thing.

I'm not really sure what your harsh point is to be honest, please expand! Massacres and atrocities are no easy things to discuss. I've spoken to survivors of the holocaust in Europe, and the Rwandan genocide, you have obviously not heard anyone participating in Tiananmen square talk about the events? It's very hard to talk so lightly about massacares when you have heard personal anecdotes and the hard ships that the…

While in this particular Hong Kong protest case, it was influenced by the west (or western values).

So my only point is that the west has caused more troubles than ever for the world. (Which is why I go on and talk about the wars etc)

Perhaps I am wrong, it was the history written by someone else.

> Massacres and atrocities are no easy things to discuss. I've spoken to survivors of the holocaust in Europe, and the Rwandan genocide, you have obviously not heard anyone participating in Tiananmen square talk about the events? It's very hard to talk so lightly about massacares when you have heard personal anecdotes and the hard ships that the people went trough.

I don't talk about this at all. (not that I am cold hearted if the impression I left for you was such, I am sorry)

edit: I made a mistake, I mean I don't talk about the details of massacres and atrocities. I just mentioned the title of them.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#105

Post by yskchu »

isaaafc wrote: post #102
yskchu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article has a nice infographic: https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/arti... Basically Hong Kong right now, has a whole bunch of extradition treaties with 20 countries[1], just not with both China governments, due to the existing law. The bill fixes this. Also, the 19 year old HK man admitted to the crime [2], however due to the the crime being committed outside HK, he can't be tried for mansl…

> However if this bill is passed he can be extradited and tried for murder in Taiwan. Taiwan clearly stated that they wouldn't extradite the man under this bill. This is the exact lie the government has been telling to mislead people who don't follow the news.

It's not a lie, Taiwan was clearly supporting extraditing him in Feb[1], though there seems to be some concern now[2]

[1] http://www.ejinsight.com/20190213-govt-proposes-revising-ext...

"Taiwanese authorities had asked their counterparts in Hong Kong multiple times to extradite Chan for a court trial, but that has not happened due to restrictions from Hong Kong law."

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902130023.aspx

"Tsai Chiu-ming (蔡秋明), head of the Department of International and Cross-Strait Legal Affairs under the Ministry of Justice, said Taiwan welcomes closer cooperation with other jurisdictions to combat cross-border crime, and he is glad to see Hong Kong's planned legislation."

[2] "Taipei will not agree to transfer of Hong Kong murder suspect if Taiwanese citizens risk being sent to mainland China"

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3009506...

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#106

Post by sonnyblarney »

yorwba wrote: post #97
sonnyblarney wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's similar to YC getting to open a China program in exchange for getting a few Mainland mods on HN. Any anti-China posts do come up to front page but then disappear much faster than everything else (same will happen to this one)." So this is one big statement. Is it true, or are you just guessing at that? Is it common knowledge, or suspicion? Where are we with the validity of that statement?

I don't think there are any moderators besides dang and sctb; dang has denied accusations like this in the past (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19496933 ) Complaints like "disappear much faster than everything else (same will happen to this one)" are quite misplaced when they concern posts that spend 10 hours or so on the front page.

Ok, so it's conspiratorial, not very fair.

YC seems to be a generally 'above board' entity, if they say they aren't doing anything specifically, I believe them.

That said, this is not an NGO, it's a Venture Capital firm. So they're going to assuage their interests. I've always found YC kind of interesting that way, playing along a very fine line.

YC has enough credibility (and frankly a lot to lose) so I'll take their word for it.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#107

Post by 594kJ »

rrrrreeeee wrote: post #21
ETHisso2017 wrote: post #16

> The latest proposal has come after a 19-year-old Hong Kong man allegedly murdered his 20-year-old pregnant girlfriend while they were holidaying in Taiwan together in February last year. The man fled Taiwan and returned to Hong Kong last year. > Taiwanese officials have sought help from Hong Kong authorities to extradite the man, but Hong Kong officials say they cannot comply because of the lack of an extradition a…

Because in PRC's mind, Taiwan is a part of the PRC

[Off topic] For those who are confused, China mainland is also a part of the ROC (Republic of China, the governing authority of Taiwan) according to the constitution. Basically, the civil war in China has never ended officially. Mainlanders want unification, Taiwanese (esp. the young generation) want the opposite. Still, constitutions are constitutions, albeit old...

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#108

Post by y2kenny »

owens99 wrote: post #92
tepidandroid wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternative viewpoint: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/opinion/china-belt-road-i...

Thanks for sharing. Key point: > Yes, debt is on the rise in the developing world, and Chinese overseas lending is, for the first time, a part of the story. But a number of us academics who have studied China’s practices in detail have found scant evidence of a pattern indicating that Chinese banks, acting at the government’s behest, are deliberately over-lending or funding loss-making projects to secure strategic ad…

According to the wiki, BRI started around 2013 [1] so how come loans made prior to that being counted towards BRI?

My recollection is that, prior to BRI/earlier loan diplomacy from China, the strategic goal was for influence in the UN against Taiwan (checkbook diplomacy.) So the goals are completely different.

'Taiwan’s current foreign relations bind stems from a deal brokered in 2008. This “diplomatic truce” guarantees that neither China nor Taiwan will pursue formal diplomatic relations with a country that has already recognized one or the other. Beijing calls it the one-China policy, and it forces nations to choose between it and Taipei, with Beijing increasingly coming out the more appealing choice.'[2]

Lumping data over strategic change seems like a poor research to me.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative#Histo...

[2]https://www.voanews.com/a/once-influential-in-africa-taiwan-...

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#109

Post by isaaafc »

yskchu wrote: post #105
isaaafc wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However if this bill is passed he can be extradited and tried for murder in Taiwan. Taiwan clearly stated that they wouldn't extradite the man under this bill. This is the exact lie the government has been telling to mislead people who don't follow the news.

It's not a lie, Taiwan was clearly supporting extraditing him in Feb[1], though there seems to be some concern now[2] [1] http://www.ejinsight.com/20190213-govt-proposes-revising-ext... "Taiwanese authorities had asked their counterparts in Hong Kong multiple times to extradite Chan for a court trial, but that has not happened due to restrictions from Hong Kong law." http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201902130023.aspx…

They wanted the suspect on trial for sure, but not under this law, as stated in your third source. Even Carrie Lam herself admitted this in the press meeting just now.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#110

Post by dang »

avocado4 wrote: post #54
PakG1 wrote: post #10

This article is published in the SCMP. The SCMP was purchased some time ago by Jack Ma. There were fears from various corners that Jack Ma, being friendly with the mainland Chinese government, would influence the SCMP to have coverage that was less independent than before. So it's interesting to see this published by SCMP.

SCMP has been pushing CCP propaganda since Jack Ma took over, it's just more subtle than GlobalTimes/XinhuaNet or other official sources. Not covering this protest would have been immediately obvious. You have to be a very subtle troll to make propaganda work abroad. It's similar to YC getting to open a China program in exchange for getting a few Mainland mods on HN. Any anti-China posts do come up to front page but…

That's not close to an accurate description of HN's front page. Please don't use HN for nationalistic flamewar.
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