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Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

scmp.com

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Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#81

Post by tepidandroid »

avocado4 wrote: post #54
PakG1 wrote: post #10

This article is published in the SCMP. The SCMP was purchased some time ago by Jack Ma. There were fears from various corners that Jack Ma, being friendly with the mainland Chinese government, would influence the SCMP to have coverage that was less independent than before. So it's interesting to see this published by SCMP.

SCMP has been pushing CCP propaganda since Jack Ma took over, it's just more subtle than GlobalTimes/XinhuaNet or other official sources. Not covering this protest would have been immediately obvious. You have to be a very subtle troll to make propaganda work abroad. It's similar to YC getting to open a China program in exchange for getting a few Mainland mods on HN. Any anti-China posts do come up to front page but…

So according to you, when they cover views unfavourable to China, they are subtly trolling and pushing CCP propaganda. When they cover news favourable to China, they are overtly pushing CCP propaganda. Got it.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#82

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cfarm wrote: post #64
hkai wrote: post #5

Just finished the 8 hour march. That was insane. But the law is even more insane. A North Korea-like totalitarian state that puts people in camps can just snatch any lawyer, businessman our journalist and take them away without trial and without revealing their location. Imagine people at startups working in sensitive areas like DNA testing, biotech, finance or data mining can be taken away and forced to reveal data,…

Do people think they'll be able to change things?

> Do people think they'll be able to change things?

An unpopular chief executive resigned in 2004 to protests half as large [1]. Beijing is at least somewhat constrained with respect to what it can openly do.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tung_Chee-hwa

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#83

Post by SubiculumCode »

cwperkins wrote: post #4

Whatever side you are on here just remember, Freedom of assembly is such an important right to hold dear. With the censorious nature of the Chinese Communist Party, I fear what the implications of a bill like this could lead to.

To me its quite.clear there is one right side in this, and it.lies with the people marching.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#84

Post by majormajor »

wltprgm wrote: post #70
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted because you seem to just be here to argue. You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. That's not a conversation, it's just a rant. HN isn't the place for that.

> because you seem to just be here to argue. You are right. I should change my tone. > You're not interacting with peoples' responses to you very much, just throwing out a blizzard of new accusations. I think I have made my point even though it was harsh. This thread is about protest in Hong Kong, and what the list of accusations (as you said) don't spread too far away, since it relates to the same thing.

Your point seemed to be "west = bad" but you did not make it well. Nor is it an interesting point - we can say communism is western, Hitler is western, "freedom" is western, whatever, good or bad, but it's silly and shortsighted. Ideas have complicated histories and there's no clean separation between good sources of ideas and bad ones.

More interesting is your idea that protesting - being willing to demonstrate disagreement with leadership - is a negative value that governments should resist and supress. You could make that argument in a clearer form, but you would still not convince many people here. (Note that this would be a different argument from "western countries also suppress disagreement sometimes.")

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#85

Post by ufo »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29
yskchu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article has a nice infographic: https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/news/hong-kong/arti... Basically Hong Kong right now, has a whole bunch of extradition treaties with 20 countries[1], just not with both China governments, due to the existing law. The bill fixes this. Also, the 19 year old HK man admitted to the crime [2], however due to the the crime being committed outside HK, he can't be tried for mansl…

> if this bill is passed he can be extradited and tried for murder in Taiwan Except Taiwan isn’t China. If Taiwan and Hong Kong want an extradition treaty, they can sign one. This bill is to enable the lawful extradition of dissenters. (Beijing tried doing it surreptitiously [1]; that backfired.) [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/08/hong-kong-book...

> Except Taiwan isn’t China

In practice it isn't, but on paper it is, both according to the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China. (One-China Policy)

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#86

Post by verall »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #74
avocado4 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SCMP has been pushing CCP propaganda since Jack Ma took over, it's just more subtle than GlobalTimes/XinhuaNet or other official sources. Not covering this protest would have been immediately obvious. You have to be a very subtle troll to make propaganda work abroad. It's similar to YC getting to open a China program in exchange for getting a few Mainland mods on HN. Any anti-China posts do come up to front page but…

"It's similar to YC getting to open a China program in exchange for getting a few Mainland mods on HN. Any anti-China posts do come up to front page but then disappear much faster than everything else (same will happen to this one)." So this is one big statement. Is it true, or are you just guessing at that? Is it common knowledge, or suspicion? Where are we with the validity of that statement?

I think it's straight bullshit. There's clearly a 'Chinese Patriot Squad' that comes through and flags/downvotes sometimes, but generally a fairly balanced opinion comes out eventually.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#87

Post by Farradfahren »

tepidandroid wrote: post #78
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been referred to as "debt trap diplomacy". Here's a piece from last month reporting that a raft of countries including Turkey have refused to attend latest summit. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/25/belt-and-road-...

Alternative viewpoint: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/opinion/china-belt-road-i...

[dead]

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#88

Post by Leary »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #13

For anyone like me who was looking for some background on this, on Reddit, someone linked to a Vox video entitled "China is erasing its border with Hong Kong" [0]. At 15 minutes, it's a captivating introduction to the conflict. Another video (6 minutes) you might be interested in by Vox is "China's trillion dollar plan to dominate global trade" [1], which is on China Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). [0]: https://www.y…

World bank analysis of BRI which shows that BRI is a net positive to the world:

" BRI will potentially have a large effect on trade and welfare for many countries ▪ All countries in the world experience a decrease in trade costs ▪ Not all sectors/countries will gain but potential aggregate effect is largely positive

But many policy barriers still remain in place. Potential gains of BRI would be enlarged by complementary reforms ▪ Need to reduce border delays, trade barriers and FDI restrictions ▪ But also boost investor protection, open public procurement, ensure private sector participation

Economic and non-economic risks associated to BRI projects need to be managed ▪ Public debt sustainability, governance, environmental and social concerns ▪ Coordination problems, lack of data, poor transparency magnify these challenges"

[1]http://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/501961539875310440/Michele-B...

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#89

Post by y2kenny »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #13

For anyone like me who was looking for some background on this, on Reddit, someone linked to a Vox video entitled "China is erasing its border with Hong Kong" [0]. At 15 minutes, it's a captivating introduction to the conflict. Another video (6 minutes) you might be interested in by Vox is "China's trillion dollar plan to dominate global trade" [1], which is on China Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). [0]: https://www.y…

This should give you a good overview:

China’s Trojan horse: Hong Kong’s new extradition arrangement puts foreigners at risk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUl-J0oh3k0

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