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Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

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Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#41

Post by loyukfai »

rococode wrote: post #39

Could someone explain to me what the plan is for the end of the 50 year transition period? From my extremely uninformed point of view, this feels like delaying the inevitable. Is there a different outcome than Hong Kong eventually being entirely under the Chinese government?

Am not sure there was any solid plans. People have, or had, different aspirations.

It, more than anything, IMO, was said to appease the fear of the HK people who had a deep mistrust of the PRC government. Still, a lot of people emigrated before 1997.

Note that the saying is kind of vague anyway, it just says that the capitalist system and "ways of living" will not change.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#42

Post by terenceng2010 »

denverkarma wrote: post #34

It was interesting to see the photos of the Union Jacks marching around. Anyone with first hand experience in Hong Kong, are there many people who wish for a return to the commonwealth, or is that a tiny minority?

I would say that most HK ppl just want a stable environment to live and happy to have a status quo. But recently, given the circumstance, more ppl do think UK can take more measures, say, in some way, to allow BNO holder to work and settle easier in UK, given that these holders are willing to and capable to do so.

And ppl might miss the last decades of British rules too, in an emotional way, as Economically and culturally HK was in a very good shape. Though most ppl won’t express it with a union flag in a public setting.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#44

Post by chii »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #13

For anyone like me who was looking for some background on this, on Reddit, someone linked to a Vox video entitled "China is erasing its border with Hong Kong" [0]. At 15 minutes, it's a captivating introduction to the conflict. Another video (6 minutes) you might be interested in by Vox is "China's trillion dollar plan to dominate global trade" [1], which is on China Belt and Road Initiative (BRI). [0]: https://www.y…

The vox video paints the Belt and Road Initiative in a negative light - which i feel is wrong. Why shouldn't China be allowed to invest and gain soft power? Why shouldn't they be allowed to make deals with countries the US deems 'undemocratic'?

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#45

Post by loyukfai »

wltprgm wrote: post #33
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Tiananmen Square massacre, which originated due to the protesters fighting for more freedom/human rights, from I heard from my uncle, it was because of the influence from westerners This is garbage. The massacre happened because Beijing responded ham-fistedly to a peaceful student demonstration. It involved atrocities including PLA troops firing on their own ambulances and dissolving bodies under tanks and in v…

Your response to my comment is silly. I was talking about the ultimate reason why they protested, it was influenced by the west, human rights. Not the way they were massacred, or how people memorialized them. I am definitely stunned to know how hacker news people comprehend edit: confirmed hacker news upvote/downvote buttons work like reddit's ones, and in turn work like facebook one except facebook doesn't have a do…

Well, respect of human rights maybe a relatively recent "western" concept, but judging from the fact that so many family members of the top brass of the communist party of China have become citizens in these "Western" countries, it does seem that they themselves do embrace such values (when it doesn't confront their own interest).

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#46

Post by arcticbull »

intopieces wrote: post #23
mothsonasloth wrote: post #18

Will this break any of the terms with the British Hong Kong handover? AFAIK the agreement mentions that China must not interfere politically or economically with the capitalistic nature of Hong Kong for at least 50 years.

What does it mean to break the agreement, anyway? Is the UK going to come take HK back?

So far the MO has been write a strongly worded memo and return focus to leaving the EU for some reason.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#47

Post by rayiner »

I was just starting high school when the handover of Hong Kong to China happened. Being pretty politically engaged at the time, I remember being surprised that everyone (in the US) was so blasé about it. This was the Clinton era, during the first tech boom. It was an optimistic, post Red Scare time. Everyone (here in the US) assumed the arrow of history pointed in the direction of progress, and that Hong Kong would retain the freedoms it had previously enjoyed.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#48

Post by loyukfai »

denverkarma wrote: post #32
mothsonasloth wrote: post #18

Will this break any of the terms with the British Hong Kong handover? AFAIK the agreement mentions that China must not interfere politically or economically with the capitalistic nature of Hong Kong for at least 50 years.

As an outside observer it seems like China doesn’t care very much about upholding agreements. And why should they? It’s not like Britain or anyone else in the west is willing to start a war with China, no matter what they do.

Sometimes I wonder if it's part of a broader trend as the war generation passes away and homo sapiens are itching back towards the "might make right" paradigm.

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#49

Post by _yuow »

loyukfai wrote: post #45
wltprgm wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response to my comment is silly. I was talking about the ultimate reason why they protested, it was influenced by the west, human rights. Not the way they were massacred, or how people memorialized them. I am definitely stunned to know how hacker news people comprehend edit: confirmed hacker news upvote/downvote buttons work like reddit's ones, and in turn work like facebook one except facebook doesn't have a do…

Well, respect of human rights maybe a relatively recent "western" concept, but judging from the fact that so many family members of the top brass of the communist party of China have become citizens in these "Western" countries, it does seem that they themselves do embrace such values (when it doesn't confront their own interest).

[flagged]

Re: Hundreds of thousands take to Hong Kong streets against controversial bill

#50

Post by godelski »

intopieces wrote: post #17
math_and_stuff wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why say 'align with western values' instead of 'respect human rights'? Freedom of speech and assembly are encoded in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Because the issue they are protesting is extradition and the rule of law being maintained; HK has a western style rule of law, mainland has practically no rule of law to speak of.

I think the distinction trying to be made here is that Chinese, Hongkongers, and Taiwanese people don't see themselves as westerners. Posters aren't saying that they shouldn't fight for basic human rights, but rather that basic human rights aren't "western", they are human. We being westerners should be proud that we have laws like this, but that doesn't mean we need to impose everything western on others. It also doesn't mean that our fight for basic human rights is fundamentally western. Just the same way it isn't American, British, German, etc. They are basic human rights after all, and last I checked these people are still humans.

TLDR: basic human rights doesn't mean you have to identify as western.

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