Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier • Hacker News Board

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#11

Post by xgulfie » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 1:47 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #8

nextstep wrote: post #5

Veganism is not a health choice for most vegans, it’s an ethical one. Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals.

> Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals. They kind of have to at some point, otherwise you're using artificial nitrogen to top up the soil and that's not just bad for the soil but is also depleting a limited resource (The nitrogen comes from what IIRC is, a single mine). I remember reading about some farmers that managed to buck the usual statistics by getting…

You realize most of the atmosphere is Nitrogen, right? I would not call it a limited resource. Clovers and other cover crops also fix hydrogen.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#12

Post by psychometry » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

There's more to "healthy" than calories and cholesterol. What a trash article.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#13

Post by mykowebhn » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

xgulfie wrote: post #11

fao_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals. They kind of have to at some point, otherwise you're using artificial nitrogen to top up the soil and that's not just bad for the soil but is also depleting a limited resource (The nitrogen comes from what IIRC is, a single mine). I remember reading about some farmers that managed to buck the usual statistics by getting…

You realize most of the atmosphere is Nitrogen, right? I would not call it a limited resource. Clovers and other cover crops also fix hydrogen.

Atmospheric nitrogen is very common. Nitrogen that is in a form that's usable by plants is not so common.

Many plants in the Fabaceae family, of which clover is a member, fix nitrogen, not hydrogen. I think that's what you probably meant.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#14

Post by eof » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #10

> Nutrition is a major reason that people are giving plant-based burger a try Not really sure about that. Current meat "production" involves destroying the planet at an accelerated pace while treating animals in the most horrible way imaginable (and even beyond imagination).

I think saying “a major reason” is fair and accurate, but I agree that the it seems people are, in general, much more concerned about the ethics of industrial farming as it relates to animal cruelty, as well as beef being such a large contributor to co2.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#15

Post by MisterBastahrd » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

They weren't meant to be and never claimed to be. You aren't going to replicate a beef patty without a ton of fat.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#16

Post by CarVac » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #8

nextstep wrote: post #5

Veganism is not a health choice for most vegans, it’s an ethical one. Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals.

> Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals. They kind of have to at some point, otherwise you're using artificial nitrogen to top up the soil and that's not just bad for the soil but is also depleting a limited resource (The nitrogen comes from what IIRC is, a single mine). I remember reading about some farmers that managed to buck the usual statistics by getting…

You don't mine nitrogen, you mine phosphorus.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#17

Post by lprubin » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #8

nextstep wrote: post #5

Veganism is not a health choice for most vegans, it’s an ethical one. Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals.

> Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals. They kind of have to at some point, otherwise you're using artificial nitrogen to top up the soil and that's not just bad for the soil but is also depleting a limited resource (The nitrogen comes from what IIRC is, a single mine). I remember reading about some farmers that managed to buck the usual statistics by getting…

I had never heard that animal corpses were used in a large scale industrial farming fertilizer so I just looked through the most common soil fertilizers, at least in the U.S. I don't believe a single one of them uses animal corpses.

It seems that the common types of fertilizer[1] are:

- anhydrous ammonia (Nitrogen pulled from the air[2])

- urea ammonium nitrate (Nitrogen pulled from natural gas and plants[3])

- granular urea (Nitrogen pulled from natural gas and plants[3])

- ammonium nitrate (Nitrogen from mixing ammonia [5] and and synthesized nitric acid [4])

- diammonium phosphate (Nitrogen from ammonia and phosphoric acid [6])

You may be correct that small farmers use animal corpses, and you may be correct that using artificial nitrogen is bad for the soil, but 97-99% of the plant foods grown in the U.S. appear to use non-animal based fertilizers. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong about the science of this.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-explosion-ammonia/fac...

[2] http://www.greenvalleychemical.com/Green_Valley_Chemical/Anh...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea#Production

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate#Production

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_production

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diammonium_phosphate

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#18

Post by mark_l_watson » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

My wife and I really enjoy both IF and BM burgers - just be sure to not overlook them!

They do contain a lot of fat from vegetable oil but they are very low in cholesterol. I will trade more sodium for the advantages for me of reducing cholesterol.

They really taste good. We like them on good rolls, purple onion, tomato, lettuce, and whatever sauce we feel like. Fantastic tasting burgers.

There is also the advantages of not killing animals. My wife and I have just spent two years living in Illinois (returning home to Sedona Arizona next week) and our rented home is beside a pasteur and let me tell you that cows run around like dogs, playing together, and generally have different personalities - we notice which ones tend to start the running around playing/games and which ones join in after the game starts. I think most people in order to make themselves feel better imagine cows and steers as being dumb animals with no soul or consciousness. Not so. I am not a strict vegetarian, but personally I feel better about reducing my meat intake.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#19

Post by CJefferson » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

fao_ wrote: post #8

nextstep wrote: post #5

Veganism is not a health choice for most vegans, it’s an ethical one. Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals.

> Plant-based foods use fewer resources per calorie and do not require cruel treatment of animals. They kind of have to at some point, otherwise you're using artificial nitrogen to top up the soil and that's not just bad for the soil but is also depleting a limited resource (The nitrogen comes from what IIRC is, a single mine). I remember reading about some farmers that managed to buck the usual statistics by getting…

Vegans aren't stupid -- but the difference in animal suffering from a meat heavy diet and a meat free diet is massive. Just because something can't be done 100% today, doesn't mean it isn't worth achieving 95% success.

Re: Impossible Foods and Beyond Meat's plant-based burgers aren't healthier

#20

Post by 52-6F-62 » Sun, Jun 09, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

I’m pretty sure this was already known and talked about.

I think the reason it’s reiterated is many people do associate “no meat” with “more healthy”, whether it’s in error or not. (There’s even a big fad here in TO of fatty deep fried vegan foods!)

The article is likely not tuned or intended for the audience of HN, but for people who don’t pay attention to the details of nutrition more.

On a side note, I tried the Beyond Meat patty when they showed up at my grocery out of curiosity. It caused me terrible GI problems for about 3 days. Never again for me (sparing any details). Only suggestion I could find as to why was potentially the high amount of canola oil. That and I rarely eat processed foods, so I’m not sure how much that was a factor.