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Joyent Public Cloud EOL

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Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#241

Post by cyphar »

Annatar wrote: post #237
cyphar wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a counter-argument to git -- namely Sun had TeamWare[1] (the prequel to BitKeeper) and thus you could argue that git is still a "shoddy reimplementation". But this of course ignores the fact that TeamWare was almost completely unknown outside Sun until BitKeeper came along (at which point it was just an element of BitKeeper's history), and that git is objectively superior in many metrics to TeamWare. Persona…

Quite unfortunately for all of us condemned to use GNU/Linux: - GCC exists because Sun Studio compilers weren't free back then; - Apache is the next generation NCSA web server; - nginex is a re-invented Apache wheel. Do you have any more examples to get corrected on? I'll be glad to set you straight, in the hope that unlike your Linux buddies you are capable of learning. They are simply amateurs wanting to play engin…

Okay, here are two examples: rsync and restic[1] (an evolution of borgbackup[2]). You already know what rsync is, but the other two are backup tools that offer encryption and content-based deduplication. There is no distinction between a "full" backup and an "incremental" backup.

Now, I already know that you're going to say that "zfs send" already does these things -- but it really doesn't. First of all, ZoL only recently got encryption support so built-in encryption with ZFS only came around recently (and was developed by someone from the GNU/Linux community, by the way). Also, ZFS's dedup is so expensive that it's very strongly recommended that people don't use it unless they really need it. Deduplication with restic and borgbackup is content-based which means that it's far more resilient to shifting bytes in files and it's effectively free because everything is stored as a CAS (to be fair, it's only mostly free because people don't use it as a filesystem).

Again, I really am not bagging on Sun here. I just think it's quite ludicrous that you're saying that any engineer who didn't work at Sun pre-2010 never invented anything. I refuse to believe that you honestly believe that, purely based on how ludicrous of a concept it is.

[1]: https://restic.net/ [2]: https://www.borgbackup.org/

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#242

Post by jen20 »

cbsmith wrote: post #195
throw0101a wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Joyent was a public cloud provider, that offered a VPS/Container style offering built on Illuminos (open source Solaris). When they first started they used FreeBSD jails IIRC. The main selling point is/was being closer to the hardware and thus getting better hardware utilization. Virtualizing at the machine level was a lot slower (especially before Intel VT-x and AMD-V came along) and so one wouldn't lose (say) 30%…

> When they first started they used FreeBSD jails IIRC. Nope. Solaris Zones.

Incorrect. FreeBSD was in use first, as founder David Young’s own history [1] describes. OpenSolaris and zones came later.

[1]: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/davidpaulyoung.com/2016/06/17...

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#243

Post by unixhero »

moeffju wrote: post #239
unixhero wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have an art installation at the corporate campus where I work. It's a parody of 1984, with inspirational quotes flowing over the entire building (300meters long). But they are not inspirational, rather artsy sometimes edgy and provocative. The sentences change every day, and are controlled by an artist in California somewhere. One of the sentences one day was: "Monomania creates success" I keep a logbook of the st…

Would you happen to be working in Germany?

No, but maybe there are several?

There are 430 statements. Holzer’s work reflects both a political and with a focus on interpersonal relations and a moral perspective. With her fleeting forms – texts that sweep past – she symbolizes aspects of life itself. Holzer represents a melancholic and committed voice in contemporary art.

* Strange section *

In a paradisiac state the basic survival tasks you need to perform all seems clear and your objective is right there in front of you.

There is a period where you know you have gone wrong but continue

Monomania creates success

* Very dark section *

Scream so powerful that it empties all the kindness you could have shown and blackened the entire fabric of your soul

Form a noise so true that your tormentor recognizes it as a sound that can come from his throat

Murder has its sexual side

You are caught thinking about killing anyone you know

Sometimes you have no other choice but to watch something gruesome occur.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#244

Post by user5994461 »

nixgeek wrote: post #173
user5994461 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me give you some hearsay then from working in both megacorps and hosting. Running a public cloud requires a massive amount of people, unlike what you seem to think. It takes one or two orders of magnitude more work to do anything public rather than internal. Bet there is no resource and no budget to keep running their public cloud anymore. It's a small company, don't have unlimited resources. Second, there are no…

Amount of servers? Not sure. Reasonable speculation suggests us-east-1 to be over one million physical servers at this point, based on Hamilton’s talk about AZ design and scale at re:Invent a couple years ago and their IPv4 consumption rate across AWS. I don’t imagine your average Fortune 50 has millions of servers.

The talks a few years ago put a datacenter around 60k servers. us-east-1 region has multiple availability zones that each has multiple datacenters (both more so than the typical region because it's the largest one).

Consider that a Fortune 50 has hundreds of thousands of employees. With one desktop per employee that's already way more hardware to manage than an AWS datacenter.

Now think of how many servers, mobile devices, network gear, access points there are to run the business. 60k servers is not uncommon. A million devices is nothing special.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#245

Post by prirun »

Annatar wrote: post #181
zzzcpan wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technically speaking, they were quite far ahead of the curve. While VMs were all the rage, they were shipping container-based products > The technical abilities of the Joyent folks were well beyond just about anybody else for a long time. None of that was ever true. Whether they had container-based or VM-based tech was a tiny unimportant detail for a cloud company. Although over engineering in this area certainly m…

Sun Microsystems literally invented the network is the computer . They were the first company ever to even begin to think in terms of distributed systems on a network scale (DEC had done some pioneering work on the hardware front prior to that with VMS, but not the network). The network file system, NFS, exists because Sun Microsystems engineers willed it so -- they wanted to multiply the computational power of small…

Prime Computer Inc. had transparent remote disk access across PrimeNet in 1980. You could not distinguish being on a local disk vs remote disk, other than performance. PrimeNet ran over token ring (they also had fiber optic token ring running at Ford's main Dearborn, MI campus), full-duplex synchronous, and half-duplex dial-up synchronous network connections.

Prime had remote procedure calls. Their MIDAS product (index sequential files, basically key-value store with multiple indexes) allowed multiple nodes to access the same file by allocating a "slave" on the node hosting the file, forwarding all calls over the network, and returning call results. OS file access worked the same way, using the same slave for all remote procedure calls. Source code designed for local file access didn't require any changes to be used for remote files, just like NFS.

I'd say Sun had a pretty good example to go by for NFS. In fact, if you want to see this in action, I wrote a Prime minicomputer emulator and have remote disks available between 5 different revs of their operating system, spanning a 10-year period.

Telnet em.prirun.com 8001 and enjoy!

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#246

Post by Annatar »

rainymanyu wrote: post #240
bcantrill wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, whenever I vow to stop explaining Sun, there is some yet-more outrageous claim that I just can't seem to summon the willpower to ignore, for fear that it will join a corpus of alternative facts that poison the wellspring of future generations. So, in that spirit: Sun emphatically did not "ignore the internet" (?!) -- and was in fact a pioneer of distributed systems in many ways. Instead of rattling off the…

Whatever... They are now history and lately remembered by hanging over Java to Oracle... Everything else will be buried in history or 42nd page of Google search results

Because "Linux is the best", or some bullshit like that?

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#247

Post by Annatar »

zzzcpan wrote: post #238
Annatar wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sun Microsystems literally invented geoclustering! Wow... just... wow.

> Sun Microsystems literally invented geoclustering! They didn't. Not that any of it is important anyway. All 80s and early 90s networking tech was ridiculously broken, which should be obvious, since distributed systems field was just born at that time (first papers in like 1978). Things started to get useful only by the end of nineties. But by that time Sun's tech was nowhere near anything internet companies were do…

Sun Microsystems was the #1 computer company by revenue at the end of '90's. Everybody ran their hardware and Solaris; that's where the slogan we're the dot in .com came from, because it was true. If you had been around for it, you'd know it. Your comments date you...

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#248

Post by Annatar »

cyphar wrote: post #241
Annatar wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite unfortunately for all of us condemned to use GNU/Linux: - GCC exists because Sun Studio compilers weren't free back then; - Apache is the next generation NCSA web server; - nginex is a re-invented Apache wheel. Do you have any more examples to get corrected on? I'll be glad to set you straight, in the hope that unlike your Linux buddies you are capable of learning. They are simply amateurs wanting to play engin…

Okay, here are two examples: rsync and restic[1] (an evolution of borgbackup[2]). You already know what rsync is, but the other two are backup tools that offer encryption and content-based deduplication. There is no distinction between a "full" backup and an "incremental" backup. Now, I already know that you're going to say that "zfs send" already does these things -- but it really doesn't. First of all, ZoL only rec…

Sorry buddy, but https://illumos.org/man/1/filesync predates rsync.

Borgbackup is a third party, unbundled application. I don't see what it has to do with people hacking on GNU/Linux like mad.

"I just think it's quite ludicrous that you're saying that any engineer who didn't work at Sun pre-2010 never invented anything."

You didn't get it quite right: I'm saying that professional engineers worked at Sun Microsystems, hp and SGI. That's statement #1. Statement #2 is that people working on GNU/Linux are amateurs who didn't invent anything. Statement #3 is that because they are amateurs who are incapable of learning, they just keep hacking shit together haphazardly and will never be engineers like the people from Sun, hp and SGI. Especially SGI: SGI had the best engineers. Those people were way ahead of their time in every technical aspect imaginable.

"I refuse to believe that you honestly believe that, purely based on how ludicrous of a concept it is."

Believe it. GNU/Linux people are amateurs. They don't have it in them. They want to be thought of as engineers but they aren't. They just aren't capable of it. That's why GNU and GNU/Linux are garbage and will never be anything more than a pile of haphazard, shoddily slapped together hacks. That's the world we live in now, where IT is shit thanks to their shitty, shoddy work.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#249

Post by Annatar »

Thaxll wrote: post #198
Annatar wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SmartOS beats GNU/Linux feature for feature and it has features like fault management architecture that are science fiction for Linux. For example, it will migrate affected memory pages from portions of the chip with too many parity errors and it will off-line the chip if necessary, but the server will continue to function. All of that will be uniformly reported on top of that and is visible with fmadm faulty. I can…

I see multiple problems with that way of thinking, first HW will fail and AWS, Google ect ... showed us that you should not invest in very sophisticated things for those kind of problems. It feels that you're building something to avoid HW issue but they will happen no mater what so it's better to invest in HA with a mix of standard servers + SW. And solaris zones... all the modern tooling are built around Linux / Do…

Because with Triton or just imgadm and vmadm one doesn't need Kubernetes. Solaris zones, imgadm and vmadm make Docker and Kubernetes obsolete.

"if you think with a small company you can change that you are very wrong"

  You must be the change you wish to see in the world.

  Mahatma Gandhi

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#250

Post by cyphar »

Annatar wrote: post #248
cyphar wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, here are two examples: rsync and restic[1] (an evolution of borgbackup[2]). You already know what rsync is, but the other two are backup tools that offer encryption and content-based deduplication. There is no distinction between a "full" backup and an "incremental" backup. Now, I already know that you're going to say that "zfs send" already does these things -- but it really doesn't. First of all, ZoL only rec…

Sorry buddy, but https://illumos.org/man/1/filesync predates rsync. Borgbackup is a third party, unbundled application. I don't see what it has to do with people hacking on GNU/Linux like mad. "I just think it's quite ludicrous that you're saying that any engineer who didn't work at Sun pre-2010 never invented anything." You didn't get it quite right: I'm saying that professional engineers worked at Sun Microsystems…

Dave Chinner is an ex-SGI engineer who has been working on XFS since the beginning of the project and is currently a Linux kernel maintainer. Brendan Gregg is ex-Sun and worked on DTrace and currently is helping improve Linux's tracing capabilities. Are they "amateurs who are incapable of learning" or "professional engineers"?

I've seen comments from you about how GNU/Linux is awful in every respect ever since you created your account ~3 years ago. I really can't imagine being so stuck in a mindset that you feel the need to spend so much of your time being angry about such a large community of people. Honestly, I just don't get it and I earnestly hope that this is just an online persona you have.

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