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New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

nytimes.com

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Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#331

Post by pmiller2 »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #324
pmiller2 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I’d also like to retire in less than 20 years, so, factor that in (probably $2000-2500/month). Food, utilities, insurance, car expenses (I don’t drive much, but it’s fairly essential for me to have a car to get certain places; it’s also paid off, fortunately), etc. I think you can see where this is going.

> Well, I’d also like to retire in less than 20 years Don't we all. > Food, utilities, insurance, car expenses (I don’t drive much, but it’s fairly essential for me to have a car to get certain places; it’s also paid off, fortunately) We all also pay for this. > probably $2000-2500/month Dude you still have $1000 probably free just chilling if you are strict. I don't get this, "you are not where you should be" mindse…

What if I told you I was 35? 45? 55? Does your perspective on “not where I should be” change given my already stated negative net worth? I’m old enough to be worried about being employable in this industry in 10 years. Do you not see how a 20 year time horizon for retirement, starting not from 0, but from -100k, is a source of anxiety?

As for “doctor money”, according to https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2018-compensation-overvie... I make below the average salary for every physician specialty except public health & preventative medicine, and I’m several years older than the typical newly minted physician.

I also live in an area where you need to make at least $80k or so to qualify for a 1br apartment, according to the “3x rent in gross salary” rule used by a lot of landlords. With my large, fixed expenses (student loans), I’m not convinced moving to a lower CoL area actually improves my bottom line, either.

I’m not poor, and, like I said, I’m getting ahead slowly now, but I’m by no means rolling in it.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#332

Post by WilliamEdward »

throwayscid3 wrote: post #114

I'm 47 and have run my own companies, exited some of them with handsome returns, enjoyed many cool start-up projects, worked for some fortune-50 companies, have an IQ that is through the roof, but despite everything, since around 7 years am unable to get a job. Mostly I'm "overqualified" or "just too old" ... never mind I am still hands-on and happy to just get paid whatever the Junior gets, but nobody is interested.…

Forgive me for going against the hackernews age discrimination rhetoric, but...

> have an IQ that is through the roof

Who talks like this? I would never unironically mention my own IQ. I can't help but feel something's missing in this suspiciously heartfelt story.

Still, I'm sorry this happened, if it happened.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#334

Post by hogu »

arvinsim wrote: post #296
luckydata wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to rock your world: almost nobody uses the keyword scanners in the ATSs. Sending a resume is mostly a waste of time, if you find a job you like just speak to someone that works at that company, preferably the hiring manager, and your likelihood of at least getting an interview goes up by about two orders of magnitude. Happy to teach you other tricks if you care for it.

Until everyday does it. And then what?

It's a capitalistic market. When everyone does X you have to figure out what Y is which will differentiate yourself. When everyone uses linkedin to target then you have to find other channels.

Everyone should read Traction by Garbriel Weinberg. It's for startup marketing but job searching is basically marketing yourself in a world that has one dominant channel (recruiters). The efficacy of different channels is time varying as they get saturated- You have to find the one that works for you at any given time

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#335

Post by paulkon »

throwayscid3 wrote: post #114

I'm 47 and have run my own companies, exited some of them with handsome returns, enjoyed many cool start-up projects, worked for some fortune-50 companies, have an IQ that is through the roof, but despite everything, since around 7 years am unable to get a job. Mostly I'm "overqualified" or "just too old" ... never mind I am still hands-on and happy to just get paid whatever the Junior gets, but nobody is interested.…

My deepest sympathies to you and your family.

You mentioned that you exited a few companies you ran. If I may ask, were you able to save any money from the companies you exited?

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#336

Post by aiisjustanif »

b3b0p wrote: post #301
mykowebhn wrote: post #33

I'm 48, on the West Coast, and recently finished interviewing, receiving multiple offers. I did 250 Leetcode problems, practiced System Design, and Behavioral. In the end, I found doing 250 Leetcode was probably overkill, but it definitely helped. This will probably get me severely down-voted, and I do understand the antipathy toward having to Leetcode, but the way I see it is that I'm really lucky. I get to sit on m…

I'm not 48, I'm younger, but in my 30's. I only started the LeetCode study grind about a year or so go, but not consistently. I just got back from my onsite at a Big-N and pretty much bombed it. I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reas…

> I gut nervous and forgot the easiest of questions. I lost my confidence. My mind went blank, my hands, nerves shaking. Couldn't write complete code or even sentences I think at times. It was bad. I was intimidated for no reason.

This happens to me too.

> Will it ever end or am I stuck grinding for the rest of my career (life)? Will I ever be able just breathe and relax again? I'm not on the West coast, but interviewing on the West Coast. I'll rent out my condo or keep it around as a home away from home if I ever get an opportunity.

Dude just try for companies on the west coast. Why is this the end all be all? Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas, Austin, Houston, Charlotte, Raleigh, Colorado Springs. . . So many cities with low CoL and six figure salaries for Developers, Security Engineers, Linux Admins, Infrastructure Engineers.

You even have Denver, DC, NYC, Charlotte, Arlington, Seattle, Tampa, Minneapolis, so many options. Stop limiting yourself San Francisco when there are so many great cities, with awesome opportunities.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#337

Post by paulkon »

rootusrootus wrote: post #253
allenu wrote: post #51

I'm 41 and still have recruiters contacting me and generally do well in interviews. I'm lucky in that the skills I have are harder to find (8 or so years doing iOS development). I also have to admit that one thing that helps me tremendously is that I look young. Just about everyone I work with assumes I am still in my 20s based on my appearance. They all act shocked once they do find out that I'm older. Looking young…

In my experience attitude and connections count for the most. I'm 45 and I don't have any problems finding new opportunities. But I never go through the front door, it's always a referral. I can't imagine having a real problem until I'm in my 60s. At least around here, there just aren't so many programmers that we can afford to turn away qualified people just because they are in their 40s or 50s. If they know their s…

What geographical area do you work in? Any skill in particular that you find helps you stand out?

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#338

Post by seattle_spring »

jacobsenscott wrote: post #300
_cs2017_ wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say the CTO said "I'm concerned the candidate won't fit in because he's not into video games or partying with coworkers or working on the weekends, all the things that help us bond and keep a cohesive team". While not directly mentioning his age, such criteria would still make it very unlikely that the older candidate would be hired. Would you consider this to be age discrimination (from a moral perspective; le…

Of course it is ageism. The CTO confused finding an employee with finding a f k buddy. The company is toxic, and is certainly discriminating unlawfully in multiple axis. Also, none of the things you mentioned contribute to team cohesion, they are all detrimental to it. Basically you are describing a CTO that has no idea how to CTO. We can take solace in the fact that his startup will fail hard.

I'm not sure working weekends and liking video games are traits of a "fk buddy."

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#339

Post by pmiller2 »

aiisjustanif wrote: post #326
geggam wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said BART so he is in SF bay area. If he is only paying 2300 rent he is living in a small apt even 60 minutes out. The cost of everything in the bay makes you wonder where money goes. Lunch is a minimum of 25 bucks, bottle of cheap beer 10.

Don't buy beer, meal prep?

Beer and lunch money isn’t the problem.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#340

Post by PopeDotNinja »

mykowebhn wrote: post #217
PopeDotNinja wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you practice System Design questions?

Based on your profile it looks like you have a lot of experience, so I would first rely on your experience. That said, there are plenty of resources that have been helpful to me: 1) http://highscalability.com/ 2) http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920032175.do 3) https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer Hope this helps!

Sweet, thanks! The part I struggle with in interviews is more on playing the game. If someone asks "how would you build a parking lot?" or "how would you design a CI system for a team of 8 developers?", I struggle to keep it simple. Making something usable is actually way easier when working with someone who has thought about what they want and/or are participating. It's like "I don't want a parking lot, you do, so tell me about why you want one". Basically I want to avoid wasting the "client's" resources until I have more information, but system design interviews are not in initial kick off meetings where you go away and come back with a few ideas that don't suck. They are accepting that someone wants proof you can design a contrived system neither of you truly care about while they out you on the spot.

The part that is missing from nearly all interviews are an opportunity for the company to sell itself to the interviewee. So as the interviewee, I'd like to say that if you make me jump thru some hoops because you feel like I should go through the same hazing process you went thru when interviewing, I am going to think that you are only focused on what I can do for you.

How about this, as an interviewer, say something like... "This design question is gonna suck because I don't know how to ask it better, but if you can just hang in there long enough to help me understand you can think about something non-trivial, that'd be fabulous. We both know you're smart, and I just need to imagine working with you in something complex."

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