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Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

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Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#71

Post by mabbo »

upofadown wrote: post #42
walrus01 wrote: post #21

It's well known in the telecom/internet infrastructure business that Huawei: a) bugged the hell out of Nortel's ottawa area offices, both physically, by rootkit, and by getting their own people hired to physically smuggle out documents and design data b) Copied the entire DWDM / optical transport product line c) Released a nearly identical product a few years later, and sold it at a ridiculously low price, effectivel…

None of the provided links as much as mentions Huawei or provides anything but uncertainty that there were any bugging devices found at the Nortel offices.

There were some stories where Huawei's source code included the Nortel copyright at the top. Just 100% blatant.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#72

Post by codedokode »

walrus01 wrote: post #45
upofadown wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the provided links as much as mentions Huawei or provides anything but uncertainty that there were any bugging devices found at the Nortel offices.

You would have to be familiar with the technical details of DWDM platform system architecture, photonics, etc in order to grok a full explanation. The Huawei product released was identical . It was identical down to the ASICs on the individual linecards and other things that would have been impossible to reverse engineer in a "Clean room" environment. I know I'm not providing a citation here, but among the community…

If it was patented, why didn't the company sue Huawei and ban import of the product?

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#73

Post by threeseed »

bstar77 wrote: post #57

I'm curious of the political implications of this situation. You have one side (the anti Huawei side) that is aided by a very unpopular US president and US government institutions that are highly mistrusted. You also have the narrative that companies like Google and nations like Canada have been coerced into supporting this "assault" on Chinese interests. It also doesn't help that there is a "trade war" in effect whe…

Intelligence agencies from other governments e.g. Australia are also wary of Huawei equipment.

This isn't about Trump or his trade war.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#74

Post by filoleg »

ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #66
Leary wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shocking this kind of stereotyping is not only allowed but upvoted to first place on HN.

It's a spillover from the right wing reddits. Always starts with "it's in their culture" never mind that almost all of the Chinese expats are just hard working normal humans. Their government might be effed up but it's a bit of a long jump to blame their culture

I don’t know, man. What i am about to say is anecdotal, but as someone who went through educational system (up until beginning of high school) in Russia, it was the same there. As soon as teacher left for a bathroom break in the middle of the class, there would always be a few students who spring up to the desk and search real quick for answer sheets for the upcoming exam or something like that. No one would call them out, because the students who try to find the materials were considered the righteous heroes risking being caught for the common good.

After talking to my dad (who still lives there) recently, I only reinforced my opinion that it is definitely a cultural issue in Russia. I cannot speak for China specifically, but I don’t see why it cannot be the case there as well.

P.S. It sucks I even feel the need to mention this, but I have zero affiliation or interest in anything even remotely right-wing.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#75

Post by threeseed »

swang wrote: post #13

wasn't samsung's foldable tech stolen as well? makes sense considering how fast huawei was able to get it.

I posted this a while back about why Samsung rushed the release of their foldable phone:

a) Samsung spent a ton of money and research in building foldable OLED screens.

b) This technology is allegedly stolen by a supplier and sold to BOE Display: https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Samsung-supplier-....

c) Huawei uses the foldable BOE Display technology in its Mate X smartphone and is on track to be the first to release it.

d) Samsung panics as it learns that the technology it built might be released by a competitor earlier than them and consumers might think of them as less of an innovator. May sound silly but the Chinese companies have been getting a lot of traction recently e.g. P30 Pro.

e) In addition Samsung goes into lock down as it fears there might be more leaks to other companies.

f) Combination of d) and e) means that there is less real world testing of the device than for other phones. And hence how we got to this point.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#76

Post by mabbo »

bstar77 wrote: post #57

I'm curious of the political implications of this situation. You have one side (the anti Huawei side) that is aided by a very unpopular US president and US government institutions that are highly mistrusted. You also have the narrative that companies like Google and nations like Canada have been coerced into supporting this "assault" on Chinese interests. It also doesn't help that there is a "trade war" in effect whe…

The US didn't chose Canada as an ally in this fight arbitrarily. One of the top other comments on this thread will tell you all you need to know about why Canadians are 100% down with going after Huawei: they killed off Nortel via IP theft.

I watched as friends' parents lost their jobs, as one of the leading telecom companies in the world was undercut by a competitor who has stolen their source code, IP, products, everything.

Trump doesn't like Huawei? Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#77

Post by codedokode »

mises wrote: post #55
walrus01 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have to be familiar with the technical details of DWDM platform system architecture, photonics, etc in order to grok a full explanation. The Huawei product released was identical . It was identical down to the ASICs on the individual linecards and other things that would have been impossible to reverse engineer in a "Clean room" environment. I know I'm not providing a citation here, but among the community…

Can confirm this from another source. Old guy I met waiting for a flight in Vegas; he was on his way back from CES. Had run his own ISP a while back for a special purpose. Talked about this, Huawei's refusal to remove a back-door ("remote assistance and diagnosis feature" or some such malarkey), etc. They're not nice guys.

But Huawei is not different from other vendors here. For example: Windows has telemetry that cannot be disabled and sends data into American data centers, Apple has control over its phones around the world, can remotely block them and know their location, and who knows what else, Google tries to convince users from around the world to store all their data in an American cloud (not their own cloud, or a cloud in their country they can trust, but the cloud in US), and almost every Intel CPU has an additional CPU (ME engine) that has full control over the system, with encrypted firmware, and is not documented.

Yet I don't see any accusations against Microsoft, Apple, Android or Intel.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#78

Post by tooltalk »

axaxs wrote: post #47
wybiral wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, what did you expect, that they wouldn't run third shifts or sell the stuff to whoever paid them for it? Yes. Because of those pesky things called "laws" and "trade agreements". It's still theft even if it wasn't always difficult to do.

I mean, you have a point, but it's inevitable. If a person pays you to do something, then you find out they are selling your work for an order of magnitude more than you're making, it's human nature to at least question this, at best mimic it, laws be damned.

I agree with you to some degree. I am against the whole notion of non-compete agreement for this reason.

But in this particular case with Samsung's OLED, Chinese companies are not only accused of poaching their former/retired employees or stealing (or learning) know-how's or IP, but also smuggling their high-tech manufacturing machinaries out of Samsung suppliers' plants in South Korea to China outright.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#79

Post by Youcandothis »

mfatica wrote: post #52
Youcandothis wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of this is not stealing, but instead copying and spying.

I'm not stealing your TV, I'm just borrowing and keeping it!

No, that would be stealing. But if you opened a TV and photographed it then it's not stealing.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#80

Post by dnomad »

walrus01 wrote: post #21

It's well known in the telecom/internet infrastructure business that Huawei: a) bugged the hell out of Nortel's ottawa area offices, both physically, by rootkit, and by getting their own people hired to physically smuggle out documents and design data b) Copied the entire DWDM / optical transport product line c) Released a nearly identical product a few years later, and sold it at a ridiculously low price, effectivel…

What a bunch of pure bullshit.

1. None of those links provide anything like evidence or support of your accusations.

2. It's absolutely remarkable that Huawei had somehow committed all these crimes and yet nobody has ever managed to prove anything significant in a court of law.

All we get are wild accusations and law suits that get thrown out.

Here's the really remarkable aspect here: the US government doesn't need to actually force propaganda on its citizens. If there's one thing we can learn very clearly from this entire ridiculous episode it is that American citizens and the American media will happily propagandize themselves. They will eagerly believe the most far fetched claims without a shred of proof, despite all actual evidence to the contrary, and they will spread those claims to each other in a kind of extremely intense decentralized disinformation machine. There's nothing else like this in the planet. You would think after Iraq Americans would learn even the tiniest bit of skepticism... But no.

I won't even bother pointing out any more how HN has devolved into a 24/7 racist anti-China Two Minute Hate system. At this point it's beyond clear that the community has abandoned any kind integrity. I don't think there's anything to be done which is why I'I've left and had to go through the embarrassing exercise if unrecommending the site to people I've previously recommended it to. People will say this is just a phase but I doubt it. When a community abandons any kind of Truth standard and just embraces bullshit I don't think it recovers.

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