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Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

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Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#51

Post by mfatica »

axaxs wrote: post #47
wybiral wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, what did you expect, that they wouldn't run third shifts or sell the stuff to whoever paid them for it? Yes. Because of those pesky things called "laws" and "trade agreements". It's still theft even if it wasn't always difficult to do.

I mean, you have a point, but it's inevitable. If a person pays you to do something, then you find out they are selling your work for an order of magnitude more than you're making, it's human nature to at least question this, at best mimic it, laws be damned.

Just because someone is a better salesman than you doesn't give you the right to break the law what kind of insane rational is that

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#52

Post by mfatica »

Youcandothis wrote: post #19
chlee wrote: post #5

Wall Street Journal has recently published an article [1] detailing some of the most high profile technology thefts and espionage related to Huawei. According to the article, here's a list of thefts and espionage attributed to Huawei, employees of Huawei, or people related to Huawei. 1. Stealing tech at tradeshows: On a summer evening in 2004, as the Supercomm tech conference in Chicago wound down, a middle-aged Chin…

Most of this is not stealing, but instead copying and spying.

I'm not stealing your TV, I'm just borrowing and keeping it!

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#53

Post by swang »

jarfil wrote: post #41

It's kind of funny to speak of "stealing tech" when it's the foreign companies themselves who give Chinese manufacturers all that's needed to set up production lines to make the tech. Like, what did you expect, that they wouldn't run third shifts or sell the stuff to whoever paid them for it?

i think what happened in samsung's case was an employee stole the blueprints and sold them to china.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#54

Post by tooltalk »

jarfil wrote: post #41

It's kind of funny to speak of "stealing tech" when it's the foreign companies themselves who give Chinese manufacturers all that's needed to set up production lines to make the tech. Like, what did you expect, that they wouldn't run third shifts or sell the stuff to whoever paid them for it?

Yes, in most cases, foreign companies are REQUIRED to either transfer their tech or have a domestic partnership as a pre-condition to do business in China (ie, access to domestic market in China). There are a few notable exception to this rule -- Tesla is one recent exception. Samsung also has been able to set up multi-billion USD DRAM factories in China without any tech transfer in spite of the Chinese gov't ambitious plan to develop their own domestic high-tech manufacturing sector.

Samsung doesn't have any OLED manufacturing in China and never agreed to such terms before. In this particular case, we aren't just talking about Chinese companies poaching Samsung's former/retired engineers or shamelessly copying their IP. The Korean authorities in a sting operation stopped a bunch of Samsung suppliers from smuggling Samsung's advanced OLED manufacturing machineries to some unnamed Chinese company (wink wink you know who) in China at the port of departure in South Korea.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#55

Post by mises »

walrus01 wrote: post #45
upofadown wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the provided links as much as mentions Huawei or provides anything but uncertainty that there were any bugging devices found at the Nortel offices.

You would have to be familiar with the technical details of DWDM platform system architecture, photonics, etc in order to grok a full explanation. The Huawei product released was identical . It was identical down to the ASICs on the individual linecards and other things that would have been impossible to reverse engineer in a "Clean room" environment. I know I'm not providing a citation here, but among the community…

Can confirm this from another source. Old guy I met waiting for a flight in Vegas; he was on his way back from CES. Had run his own ISP a while back for a special purpose. Talked about this, Huawei's refusal to remove a back-door ("remote assistance and diagnosis feature" or some such malarkey), etc. They're not nice guys.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#56

Post by Leary »

choonway wrote: post #40

It's built into their culture. There was one time when the lecturer left the classroom during a break in the lecture, the china exchange students swarmed over his laptop, which he did not lock down, inserted USB drives, copied files had lookouts posted at the door etc. It was so shockingly spontaneous. They did not know I was not a student but another lecturer auditing his class. Later I told him that his laptop was…

Shocking this kind of stereotyping is not only allowed but upvoted to first place on HN.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#57

Post by bstar77 »

I'm curious of the political implications of this situation. You have one side (the anti Huawei side) that is aided by a very unpopular US president and US government institutions that are highly mistrusted. You also have the narrative that companies like Google and nations like Canada have been coerced into supporting this "assault" on Chinese interests.

It also doesn't help that there is a "trade war" in effect where many people believe collateral damage is going to happen, just or not... that it's simply a reality of a (proxy) war. Finally, you have the Huawei customers/supporters (from all over the world) that feel strongly these accusations are fabricated and entirely self serving to the US.

How do we navigate this mess and get to the core facts in an age where expert opinions and fact checking is undervalued? And, as it relates to China, where is the line between xenophobia and justified concern?

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#58

Post by [deleted] »

choonway wrote: post #40

It's built into their culture. There was one time when the lecturer left the classroom during a break in the lecture, the china exchange students swarmed over his laptop, which he did not lock down, inserted USB drives, copied files had lookouts posted at the door etc. It was so shockingly spontaneous. They did not know I was not a student but another lecturer auditing his class. Later I told him that his laptop was…

[deleted]

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#59

Post by barry-cotter »

jxramos wrote: post #20

Do these companies ever actually innovate and build social/intellectual capital beyond reverse engineering skills or are they gaming to pollute the waters so much that they risk sacrificing the golden goose to whom they steal ideas? This all sort of reminds me of the quip communism or socialism only works until those in charge spend all the money of those who are productive. If IP and the R&D expenses never become pr…

> Do these companies ever actually innovate and build social/intellectual capital beyond reverse engineering skills

Yes. See the industrial history of the US, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and everywhere else that ignored patents and trade secrets for more details. Cisco would be highly profitable if it could only sell to the US market and if you’re the market leader your stuff is just better for years to minimum, a year. People want the best, they want quality, so they pay a premium for it. That’s why brands exist, otherwise people would have to do their own quality control for each individual thing they bought.

Re: Huawei Accused of Technology Theft

#60

Post by axaxs »

wybiral wrote: post #50
axaxs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you have a point, but it's inevitable. If a person pays you to do something, then you find out they are selling your work for an order of magnitude more than you're making, it's human nature to at least question this, at best mimic it, laws be damned.

You seem to be justifying crime because it was so easy to commit that you might as well. Yard ornaments might be easy to steal, I mean, heck, people just leave them in their front yard over night. But it's still theft, it's still illegal, and even though the people made it easy there should still be a penalty for the theft.

I think most people would agree that idealogical theft is far different than physical theft.

Not saying I agree with said theft, but when making deals with known questionable actors, it's a bit of a given.

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