New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It • Hacker News Board

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#181

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #168

scarface74 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My resume has always been one page. I hate looking over 3 page resumes. I don’t care what you did in the 90s. No one cares that I wrote C for DEC VAX and Stratus VOS mainframes in the late 90s or the systems I wrote with a combination of C++/COM and Vb6 in the early 2000s. I only go back 10 years. In fact, I negotiated not to be a team lead at my current job.

Do you just cut off the jobs after that point entirely, or company, start date, end date?

Everything. After 10 years it doesn’t really matter how much experience you have. I took off the two jobs I had between 1996-2008 because the skillset was outdated (VB6, Perl, Classic ASP) or something I didn’t want to do (C and C++). I’ve been doing C# since 2008 so I don’t think that will be irrelevant even in 2022.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#182

Post by kqr2 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:29 PM UTC

madengr wrote: post #174

freyr wrote: post #54

Can someone tell me where the older software engineers in the Bay Area have gone? I recently moved into the software industry (after years in the telecom industry), and the lack of older software engineers is disconcerting in a Soylent Green type of way. I guess some have moved into management, and others have made enough money to retire, or they've moved somewhere with better value than the Bay Area. They're likely…

Wrong movie. Logan’s run would be more appropriate; Carousel.

In Logan's Run, however, most of the people voluntarily retired themselves in Carousel.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#183

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

fma wrote: post #164

scarface74 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started out as a typical 12 year old computer geek. But, by the time I turned 35, I became much more cynical. Computers became a way to put food on my table. I don’t “have fun” with technology. I don’t hate my career by any means, but, I do what’s necessary to stay buzzword compliant. I got into vicious codependent cycle with my job by the time I was 35. I didn’t know enough to be competitive and leave, I was bitte…

I'm in the same boat as you were, I think. I like my company, but as the lead dev of a team in a big company I make a lot of technical decisions/reviews/collaborations... but others implement because I'm spending most of my time talking to the business, support, planning...etc. Not as much hands on. Considering swinging the pendulum the other way to hands on technical again and let others do the BS work. Do you know…

I’m in North Atlanta. My email address is in my profile.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#184

Post by steverb » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:30 PM UTC

maxheadroom wrote: post #73

scarface74 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My resume has always been one page. I hate looking over 3 page resumes. I don’t care what you did in the 90s. No one cares that I wrote C for DEC VAX and Stratus VOS mainframes in the late 90s or the systems I wrote with a combination of C++/COM and Vb6 in the early 2000s. I only go back 10 years. In fact, I negotiated not to be a team lead at my current job.

> My resume has always been one page. I hate looking over 3 page resumes. I don’t care what you did in the 90s. This is very culture specific. Example: Like you, I usually keep a revolving ~10 years history on my CV. As the years progress, I drop anything > 10 years, as it's really no longer relevant. Anyways, I was pointedly asked one time during an interview, recently, for a company in a different country, " Where'…

My solution to this has generally been to add a "1997 - 2000 Various Previous work history available upon request" at the bottom.

And then just carry a copy or two of the full CV with you to the interview. If someone wants to see it, let them. Generally interviewers have just been curious.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#185

Post by solidsnack9000 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:31 PM UTC

4ntonius8lock wrote: post #108

Odd that in an article about age based discrimination, they don't mention that there is also age based discrimination against young people, for example, getting into C level positions in the non-tech world. When I used to be employed by other people, I specifically remember being told "we can't really promote you to director, you are too young". I wasn't inexperienced (I started working full time at 16). It wasn't th…

Not being able to get a C-level position is a problem for a very small number of people. Not being able to get a job at all, on the other hand...

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#186

Post by stale2002 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:32 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #141

4ntonius8lock wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it suspect how as soon as I say young people get discriminated on, a bunch of people who I'd assume are older than in their 20s, come out and defend such discrimination. I'm not that young anymore. I called them old farts because that is what they were. They discriminated on me based on my age alone, so that makes them old farts in my book. I wouldn't have been considered for the director position without any…

Age is a proxy in people’s minds for other things, usually maturity, gravitas and playing the social game. Not always but more often than not. Age is a quick if inexact proxy but you can prove it in other ways.

I don't really care.

People who engage in age discrimination, against young people, should be fired or fined out of existence.

Discrimination is discrimination.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#187

Post by marcinzm » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:35 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #186

marcinzm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age is a proxy in people’s minds for other things, usually maturity, gravitas and playing the social game. Not always but more often than not. Age is a quick if inexact proxy but you can prove it in other ways.

I don't really care. People who engage in age discrimination, against young people, should be fired or fined out of existence. Discrimination is discrimination.

So every car insurance and car rental company should be removed? After all, they all charge higher rates to young people irrespective of years actually driving. I mean, sure science says the human brain doesn't mature until mid 20s and sure young people have much higher rates of accidents. But, damn it, we should just wipe them all out anyway, right?

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#188

Post by ska » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:37 PM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #177

m0zg wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "interviews" are you talking about? Your track record is supposed to speak for itself. The interview boils down to sitting down with a client and figuring out what they need and whether you can do it. Because you're a contractor you can be fired effortlessly, so there's very little risk for the client. You can also fire the client, so there's little risk for you. I think you either don't have the right track rec…

Well it's partially a marketing issue, to answer your question of why interviews. It's recruiters who find me, and they present me as a contractor (when I signal I'm searching for this). The people I used to work with tend to ping me for full-time roles only, unfortunately, and word-of-mouth seems to be a common contractor route. Finding clients outside of that requires what I expect is a social media presence, possi…

Working as a contractor and working as consultant are really different things.

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#189

Post by bongobongo » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:38 PM UTC

esoterica wrote: post #176

bongobongo wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the point that you are trying to make, but it's off the mark. Older workers are almost always paid more than younger workers, all else being equal. Unless there is some seismic shift in the economy, this might as well be axiomatic. So, it's just not possible for older people to depress the wages of younger people, unless older people in their prime working years for compensation (35-55+) for most sectors…

People job hop and use competing offers as leverage for pay raises all the time. It’s not as rare an occurrence as you seem to think it is.

I owe 100% of my salary growth to job-hopping, so your assumption is incorrect.

Look, you made a bad argument. It's not a big deal. The fact is that the situation you described is frankly ridiculous: the notion that, were it not for older workers depressing wages, entry-level workers would cause compensation to go up by being so good at what they do and geographically flexible that they can go from metro area to metro area telling employers to fuck off until somebody recognizes them for the genius that they are. (It's a nice fantasy, though.)

Re: New Evidence of Age Bias in Hiring, and a Push to Fight It

#190

Post by devonkim » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 11:43 PM UTC

povertyworld wrote: post #92

This is why I gave up on ever having a "real job". This thread inspired me to take a look at a job board and the first thing I saw was a mobile developer job listed as "entry level". Scrolling down, the requirements are 5 years minimum mobile development experience. This is entry level now? Five years experience? By the time I have five years experience working at some kind of theoretical pre-entry level job and fina…

There’s some cruel irony of you bringing up accounting for more stability when another poster in these comments said his father was laid off from an accounting job in his 40s and never found another job again. Modern work is brutal in the developed world and our institutions both government and market are failing at utilizing the wealth of human experience and knowledge available primarily for the sake of institutions built upon generations of burn-out, complacency, and cronyism as the dark sides of the virtues of diligence, solidarity, and trust relationships.