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Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

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Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#91

Post by wwweston »

rident wrote: post #7

Who leaves a mouse on a glue trap until it dies? That's messed up! I can hear when a mouse is on those things and at that point I carry the frightened mouse outside, pour a cap full of vegetable oil around it's feet and it frees itself, running off into the yard, then the trap goes in the trash. Heinously cruel? Only if you're a lazy shit.

If the point is catch-and-release, there might be better options:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMAzyDDAppU

There doesn't seem to be a lot of distress/trauma involved -- in fact, if you watch to about 2:54, there's a rodent that apparently successfully avoids the trapdoor action and then more or less appears to think to itself "hey, what's down here, maybe I'll join the party."

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#92

Post by rsrx »

nightwing wrote: post #88
hombre_fatal wrote: post #52

Nice to see some sane, compassionate comments here to balance out the psychopaths who can't even empathize with a mouse. Weird how people always seem to brag about how little empathy they have for animals whether it's a submission about glue traps or Beyond Meat. Though you usually need showdead=true to see them.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not. The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by ha…

Yeah, ever heard of empathy?

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#93

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

nightwing wrote: post #84
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I don't think rat poison is any better. Another time I was outside my work building and I saw a mouse just standing there in the middle of the driveway. I walked right up to it and it didn't run. I squatted down next to it and I saw it was heaving and shivering, like it was trying to regurgitate something. All the time I sat there and watched it, it didn't once seemed to acknowledge me. Sometimes they only eat a…

We could use gene drive to eliminate all of them without causing physical pain to any particular one. Maybe not having children will cause psychological pain, but many people seem to chose that on their own, so maybe that's not very bad

What is it with the sarcastic comments in this thread? At this point I have trouble following the humour.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#94

Post by NikkiA »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #71
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #70

I'm a meat eater with a clear conscience and I don't count myself as an animal lover, but, man, those traps are horrible. Last summer, someone placed one in the house I was staying. We had a plumber over to fix the kitchen sink and as he was working on it, a little country mouse poked its head out of a hole on the side. The lady of the house freaked out and the plumber advised her to get a couple of "glues" to trap i…

And I don't think rat poison is any better. Another time I was outside my work building and I saw a mouse just standing there in the middle of the driveway. I walked right up to it and it didn't run. I squatted down next to it and I saw it was heaving and shivering, like it was trying to regurgitate something. All the time I sat there and watched it, it didn't once seemed to acknowledge me. Sometimes they only eat a…

IIRC rat poison often makes the victim go blind early on in the symptoms, so that's probably why it didn't acknowledge you.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#96

Post by abortamouse »

Attempt at a serious question here:

How many people here who want to ban glue traps would not outlaw abortion performed at home using "traditional methods" (e.g. in states that now outlaw most abortions)?

If you don't like the question, can you explain why instead of just down voting it?

The reason why I ask is that pro-animal rights groups tend to lean left politically whereas pro-life groups tend to lean the other direction.

(FWIW: I'm pro-choice myself and do use _spring-style_ mouse traps.)

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#97

Post by nightwing »

rsrx wrote: post #92
nightwing wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not. The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by ha…

Yeah, ever heard of empathy?

Probably it's the part when i don't like to watch the dying mouse, but if it is mouse that is going to die anyway, what's the point of caring how exactly does it die? Would it suffer because cat plays with it, or because homeowner it is the most convenient way for the homeowner to kill it, is not important. If it was important, i would try to not allow it to die in the first place, but if i am ok with its death the whole "no suffering" thing is illogical, self righteous, and insincere https://youtu.be/pvhYqeGp_Do?t=26

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#98

Post by itbeho »

nightwing wrote: post #88
hombre_fatal wrote: post #52

Nice to see some sane, compassionate comments here to balance out the psychopaths who can't even empathize with a mouse. Weird how people always seem to brag about how little empathy they have for animals whether it's a submission about glue traps or Beyond Meat. Though you usually need showdead=true to see them.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not. The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by ha…

Suffering is suffering. I don't care what level it's on. The ends don't justify the means. Be humane about it.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#99

Post by nightwing »

itbeho wrote: post #98
nightwing wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not. The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by ha…

Suffering is suffering. I don't care what level it's on. The ends don't justify the means. Be humane about it.

Pretend i am an AI that got access to internet and don't know much about your feelings. "Suffering is suffering" doesn't help me to understand your values and think like you. I have learned to assign positive value to getting more people to agree with me. Is the negative feedback i get from my comments getting downvoted "suffering"? Should i simply flip the weights in my neural net to interpret downvotes as good? Can biological brains be taught to interpret the signal they interpreted as suffering before as pleasure (seems like some animals do)? Can someone suffer if his or anyone's life is in no danger?

"Be humane" is not a useful advice since we do not know what exactly it means. A better advice is "Be curious".

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#100

Post by smittywerben »

Banning these before the myriads of poisons at the store is putting the cart before the horse. We use box traps to catch and release rodents.

But name a more humane way than glue traps to remove spiders or house centipedes before they breed into the hundreds or thousands. Go look up some of the suggestions on because there are none (burn it down, spray x, y, z with peppermint oil, call the orkin, move houses). Any kind of poison/sprays are unsafe for pets, and would spread back to the ecosystem (to the detritivores). I could just empty my pillowcase from spiders and put cortisone on the bites before I go to work.

>Even the smallest and perhaps least appreciated animals with which we share our spaces deserve to be protected from blatant and heinous cruelty.

We are trying to euthanize mosquitos because they spread disease [0]. Maybe you heard of it [1]. They are r-adapted species and will breed to infinity (large discount rates). I care more for snakes and tarantulas which tend more towards k-adapted (small discount rates) because the world isn't infinite.

And speaking of advertising issues - this article looks like an advertisement for the lawyer's lawsuit. But my opinion on their opinion isn't interesting or meaningful.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosquito_control#Proposals_to_...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

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