I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project • Hacker News Board

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#221

Post by dopeboy » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:21 PM UTC

trillcyborg wrote: post #37

Hey guys its cool to see that you like my project. Unfortunately these types of things happen to independent contractors often and theres not a whole lot you can do about it but learn from mistakes. I used some awesome tech for the first time in this one like react-native-web which is now in Expo and react-spring for those sexy animations. Im happy for any of you guys to use this project as a boilerplate, learn some…

These things unfortunately happen. I hope you don't get discouraged - plenty of fish and all that.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#222

Post by dopeboy » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #81

Don’t understand why someone would throw away their integrity by doing this. When a client refuses to pay, the standard procedure is to take them to court and then make them pay what is owed + attorney fees. Instead, this developer has put himself on industry blacklists by doing this. No way he’ll be trusted with sensitive projects. Don’t do this.

If this person is an indie contractor doing this as a side hustle, I don't think it's a huge deal. I would still omit the story and label it as some open source project from the get go.

If this person runs a shop where there's a bigger reputation at stake, I'd agree with what you said.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#223

Post by dboreham » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

novaleaf wrote: post #147

xwdv wrote: post #81

Don’t understand why someone would throw away their integrity by doing this. When a client refuses to pay, the standard procedure is to take them to court and then make them pay what is owed + attorney fees. Instead, this developer has put himself on industry blacklists by doing this. No way he’ll be trusted with sensitive projects. Don’t do this.

I'm in a kind of similar situation in that Msft owes me aprox $7k in royalties but they lost track of it internally. I've been pinging them every 6 months about this for the last 4 years, hoping to avoid litigation. in the usa, you can't expect a lawyer to take a case without paying their fees up front. So $5000+ for any case. Assuming you win, you are still looking at years before you might actually get paid (if eve…

This story sounds a little fishy to me. If they just "lost track of it" you don't need to sue. You need to dig out your executed contract with MS, and your set of unpaid invoices and start making phone calls. Ultimately if that fails, pay a lawyer a few hundred to send a letter to the address in the "Notices" section of the contract, demanding payment. That'll get the attention of someone who will get you paid.

Otoh if there is an actual dispute (MS disagrees that they owe you money) then you need to walk away. Nobody is going to sue MS for $7k.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#224

Post by webninja » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

qafy wrote: post #123

Animats wrote: post #41

This thing wants the password for your bank account? WTF? That's way more than it needs. Enough info to authorize an ACH transfer, maybe. But the login password for your bank account? No way. That voids Bank of America's security guarantee.[1] If you provide info for an ACH transfer, and the other party abuses that info, it's reversible. If you provide login info and the other party abuses that info, it's not. [1] ht…

If you aren't comfortable with that you better not use any fintech apps like Cash App, Venmo, Wealthfront, Robinhood, any Intuit products, etc. These services use Plaid (like this app does) or similar APIs like Quovo, Yodlee, etc. Even financial institutions themselves like Citi Bank, American Express, Chime, PayPal, etc use these APIs to link your accounts. And to be clear, the app itself never has access to your cr…

1) Robinhood only has my routing number and account number.

2) The Cash app only has my routing number and account number.

3) PayPal only has my routing number and account number.

4) My credit card only has my bank’s routing and account number.

Despite these restrictions, the world keeps on spinning round and round.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#225

Post by thaumasiotes » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #183

thaumasiotes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid Why would this matter? If he's not paid, what validity does the contract have?

> If he's not paid, what validity does the contract have? What does this mean? The contract is valid absent payment. A contract has to have consideration for both parties to be a valid contract, but a promise of payment is a perfectly valid consideration and would make the contract valid.

How can a promise of payment, combined with a refusal to honor that promise, be valid consideration? It doesn't differ from a promise of nothing.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#226

Post by stordoff » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 9:46 PM UTC

jamessb wrote: post #72

nostrademons wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also NAL, but my understanding is that if no "consideration" (something of value) changes hands, the contract is null and void. This is why people sell things for $1 instead of giving them away, or why executives take $1 salaries instead of working for free. Thus, if he really never received anything of value for the work, it's as if the contract never happened, and ownership of the IP remains with the person who cre…

I would check with a lawyer in your jurisdiction before assuming that non-payment voids the contract. See, for example, the judgement in this UK case: > Finally, although the First Assignment records both that Mr Dichand and Dr Spaziante were to receive one US dollar as consideration for the assignment of the PCT Applications and further records that they both acknowledged receipt of the dollar, it was never paid by…

Slightly pedantically - England and Wales. Scots law doesn't require consideration.

I'd certainly check with a lawyer though - it's been a long time since I studied it ( English law), but my understanding is that not paying is a breach of contract, and it doesn't necessarily make it void for lack of consideration.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#227

Post by UweSchmidt » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:15 PM UTC

qafy wrote: post #123

Animats wrote: post #41

This thing wants the password for your bank account? WTF? That's way more than it needs. Enough info to authorize an ACH transfer, maybe. But the login password for your bank account? No way. That voids Bank of America's security guarantee.[1] If you provide info for an ACH transfer, and the other party abuses that info, it's reversible. If you provide login info and the other party abuses that info, it's not. [1] ht…

If you aren't comfortable with that you better not use any fintech apps like Cash App, Venmo, Wealthfront, Robinhood, any Intuit products, etc. These services use Plaid (like this app does) or similar APIs like Quovo, Yodlee, etc. Even financial institutions themselves like Citi Bank, American Express, Chime, PayPal, etc use these APIs to link your accounts. And to be clear, the app itself never has access to your cr…

You list an amazing number of apps and services, but that doesn't seem to reassure me of the idea of giving up your credentials.

That's way too much enthusiasm for the new and shiny app, way too little awareness that in this world people are out to get what's yours, way too little concern for questionable security at every single layer of computing, way too much trust in the banking system, way too careless about the information about you that you give to strangers.

Not something that people I know who are good with money would do.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#228

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

slartibardfast0 wrote: post #187

rrix2 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which bank implements OAuth?

Every bank in the EU will have to have it or near equivalent very soon under the EU’s Payment Services Directive 2 which mandates API based access to accounts. Sandboxes are already available under reasonable terms for many banks in for example Ireland. *edit, first word

[deleted]

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#229

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

qafy wrote: post #123

Animats wrote: post #41

This thing wants the password for your bank account? WTF? That's way more than it needs. Enough info to authorize an ACH transfer, maybe. But the login password for your bank account? No way. That voids Bank of America's security guarantee.[1] If you provide info for an ACH transfer, and the other party abuses that info, it's reversible. If you provide login info and the other party abuses that info, it's not. [1] ht…

If you aren't comfortable with that you better not use any fintech apps like Cash App, Venmo, Wealthfront, Robinhood, any Intuit products, etc. These services use Plaid (like this app does) or similar APIs like Quovo, Yodlee, etc. Even financial institutions themselves like Citi Bank, American Express, Chime, PayPal, etc use these APIs to link your accounts. And to be clear, the app itself never has access to your cr…

[deleted]

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#230

Post by jwr » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

qafy wrote: post #209

jwr wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well of course I won't use anything like that! I find it mind-boggling that people even consider giving a third party their bank account login+password. It's like saying "yes, I want to be robbed of all my money, please take these credentials and spread them forth to whichever leaked data pile they might end up in". My bank considers transactions done using login credentials to be final. There is no recourse if someo…

Interesting... I use Spark but when I authorized my gmail account I went through a Google Oauth flow, never entered my password into Spark itself.

If you used any IMAP accounts (not from Google), you would need to enter the password. And Spark will quietly send it to "the cloud" and keep it there, with servers accessing your mail whenever they please. This is kind-of mentioned in the Privacy Policy, but in a way that wasn't clear to me at all.

I found this unacceptable, so I can't use Spark, which I regret. I also lost trust for Readdle, so now, even though they make great apps, I am extra careful with handing them any sensitive information.