WeChat and the Surveillance State • Hacker News Board

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#121

Post by vorpalhex » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

tempguy9999 wrote: post #101

theseadroid wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there's a third option aside from continue the state quo or convert fully into a democracy? Maybe the party can evolve into something that's more and more benevolent to the people it governs? As a Chinese who emigrated because of the many social problems of China, I'm not sure switching to democracy right now will be beneficial for regular Chinese. You've all heard stories about how bad mannered Chinese tourist…

> Maybe there's a third option aside from continue the state quo or convert fully into a democracy? Maybe the party can evolve into something that's more and more benevolent to the people it governs? As one raised in a democracy (the UK) and thankful for that, taking a big step back I don't know if democracy is a more stable system than others. Or even better in terms of long-term results. I wonder if our democracy i…

Democracy will never be as stable as a regime or dictator, but it can also survive a lot more chaos and instability while still protecting the rights of its people.

A stable system does not mean a robust one. A tea cup on a counter is stable, but easily broken. A spinning top is not very stable but can survive most falls.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#122

Post by idlewords » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

theseadroid wrote: post #76

idlewords wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By no measure is China a freer society today than it was 10 years ago.

really? source please?

Chosen at random (because I'm not your on-demand research assistant): https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/21...

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#123

Post by polskibus » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

_hardwaregeek wrote: post #105

I was explaining what it's like to live in China to someone and it's like explaining a dystopian cyberpunk novel, but with a level of surrealism and just plain absurdity. A Gibson novel filtered through some Philip K. Dick. You have a gigantic surveillance state with unprecedented reach and control...banning people from referencing a cartoon bear. You have a society with an extremely sophisticated cashless economy——b…

Maybe it's because in reality cashless is easy compared to clean water and no pollution for masses?

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#124

Post by knolax » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

educationdata wrote: post #19

What is more scary is that there are many Chinese Americans using WeChat to connect with family members. There is no doubt some of them work in the U.S. government or other sensitive companies or agencies. By tracking their location alone, the Chinese government can obtain huge amount of data.

It's red scare 2.0 with you people.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#125

Post by idlewords » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #73

idlewords wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please use your words next time, not a random dump of links you found compelling.

I've used my words many times and all that ever happens is that I get shouted down or called a conspiracy theorist, so I decided to lead with evidence directly responding to the OP's points, and then follow with words. Did you not see those?

If you frequently get called a conspiracy theorist it's most likely because... you're a conspiracy theorist. Like, you claim in some of your posts that NPR is a mouthpiece for Lockheed Martin, and that Jeff Bezos decides what the Washington Post will print.

Now, maybe those conspiracies are real, and you're seeing something the rest of us are too blind (or too deep in the pockets of Deep Hacker) to see. But then you have to work extra hard to build the case and persuade, with a cogent narrative. That requires a lot of work! It's not very fair. But it's the only way you're going to get people to listen to you, if that is an outcome you want.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#126

Post by Libelula » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

That's enough for me, I'm uninstalling the app and my Chinese friends better upgrade to WhatsApp or Telegram.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#127

Post by theseadroid » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:18 PM UTC

idlewords wrote: post #122

theseadroid wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? source please?

Chosen at random (because I'm not your on-demand research assistant): https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/21...

Thanks. I didn't mean to make you a research assistant. In this age of misinformation, I think it's good manner to back up our claims with some evidence. And as a Chinese I was pretty surprised by the claim itself.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#128

Post by 01100011 » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:22 PM UTC

netwanderer3 wrote: post #41

I once tried downloading WeChat from Google Play but the registration process required another existing WeChat user that I may know to recommend or vouch for my account first so I couldn't complete it. Strangely enough, a few months later I needed to use it for work and this requirement disappeared. Has this ever occurred to anyone?

Yeah they occasionally get paranoid and clamp down it seems. I had installed it, made an account, then uninstalled it. When I reinstalled, I forgot my password. That flagged my # as suspicious and then it required another WeChat user(who had an account longer than, IIRC, 6 months, and who hadn't validated anyone else lately) validate me before I could continue.

A few weeks ago I tried again and all they wanted was a facebook auth to create a new account. I think they're trying to broaden adoption now. Probably a good strategy for a spy app.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#129

Post by rsync » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:34 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #70

I absolutely hate WeChat (not necessarily just for the reasons in the article, but many other technical reasons) but I'm forced to use it because all of my friends and my entire social life happens on it. And I live in the Bay Area. If I don't use it I would basically be locking myself up in a prison where I would never see my friends. Even the majority of my friends who work at Facebook and Google use WeChat to orga…

"I absolutely hate WeChat (not necessarily just for the reasons in the article, but many other technical reasons) but I'm forced to use it because all of my friends and my entire social life happens on it."

Genuinely curious - is there a non-app (ie., plain SMS) interface to wechat ?

There is a plain SMS interaction layer for groupme and because I host my own phone service at twilio, I have total control over messaging to groupme groups because I can just interact with groupme on the command line ...

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#130

Post by rsync » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

ConfusedDog wrote: post #18

This is indeed very scary especially now it requires facial recognition part... to sign up for WeChat, you need to have a valid phone number; to use WeChat pay, you got to provide real-name and official ID, bank account, etc. From the WeChat social network, relationships are easily identified. The mere existence of such tool is destine to be misused, regardless who made it. This is what real power looks like.

"The mere existence of such tool is destine to be misused, regardless who made it. This is what real power looks like."

I encourage you to read the novel _A Deepness in the Sky_ which introduces the concept of "localizers" which are the technological end-state of "smart speakers" and social networks like wechat. Very well fleshed out and very thought provoking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky#Localize...