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Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

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Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#81

Post by paleogizmo »

rident wrote: post #7

Who leaves a mouse on a glue trap until it dies? That's messed up! I can hear when a mouse is on those things and at that point I carry the frightened mouse outside, pour a cap full of vegetable oil around it's feet and it frees itself, running off into the yard, then the trap goes in the trash. Heinously cruel? Only if you're a lazy shit.

Glue traps are practical (though cruel) if you have property that you visit infrequently so changing out bait on snap traps isn't an option. If that isn't the case there are humane options that are also effective. I used the "Mice Cube" live traps off Amazon which worked well and don't pose a risk to pets or wild predators. Live traps do need to be checked frequently so the animal won't die horribly.

Definitely don't use poison. It's not painful for the rodents, but it makes its way up into the food chain. Mountain Lion P47 in CA is alleged to have died from rat poison ingestion.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#82

Post by srean »

thatoneuser wrote: post #75
dkersten wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in the country where all of my neighbours were farmers: there's a huge difference between killing an animal and killing an animal in a cruel (ie unnecessary suffering) manner. Killing a mouse with a trap that does the killing quickly, I don't have any problem with, but these traps just pin the creature in place so that it cannot get away and slowly dehydrates to death.

I empathize but how's that better than an old cow being slowly eaten alive by coyotes when it gets into the wrong pasture? Or a horse breaking a leg and... I mean it's nasty. Or a chicken dying of infection because it's getting pecked by other chickens? Or hell, a mouse being poisoned and eaten by a snake or other creature? I feel like growing up next to a farm vs working on a farm is a big difference and there's a l…

Thats doesnt like an intelligent piece of equivalence: setting a glue trap is a deliberate action, cattle getting lost -- not so much unless thats deliberate too

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#83

Post by paleogizmo »

piedpiper19 wrote: post #16

They should also ban cats while they are on this. Being eaten alive sounds way more cruel than getting stuck and starving to death! /s

Coming from a less-than-responsible owner, based on my experience with a well-fed housecat, the cat will definitely make them suffer until they succomb to exhaustion which will take a few minutes. Once playtime is over death is pretty fast, either crushing the windpipe or a canine slipped between the cervical vertebrae. That's still loads better than the glue trap where death is at least hours away after exhaustion sets in.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#84

Post by nightwing »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #71
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #70

I'm a meat eater with a clear conscience and I don't count myself as an animal lover, but, man, those traps are horrible. Last summer, someone placed one in the house I was staying. We had a plumber over to fix the kitchen sink and as he was working on it, a little country mouse poked its head out of a hole on the side. The lady of the house freaked out and the plumber advised her to get a couple of "glues" to trap i…

And I don't think rat poison is any better. Another time I was outside my work building and I saw a mouse just standing there in the middle of the driveway. I walked right up to it and it didn't run. I squatted down next to it and I saw it was heaving and shivering, like it was trying to regurgitate something. All the time I sat there and watched it, it didn't once seemed to acknowledge me. Sometimes they only eat a…

We could use gene drive to eliminate all of them without causing physical pain to any particular one. Maybe not having children will cause psychological pain, but many people seem to chose that on their own, so maybe that's not very bad

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#85

Post by dev_dull »

dvirsky wrote: post #78
dev_dull wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer my cats, which are more cruel than any of the mouse trap styles sold here.

Don't mice just avoid houses with cat smell? I used to have cats and I don't remember them catching any mice, we just didn't have them anymore.

Yes, which makes them very effective! Squirrels on the other hand...

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#86

Post by dkersten »

thatoneuser wrote: post #75
dkersten wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in the country where all of my neighbours were farmers: there's a huge difference between killing an animal and killing an animal in a cruel (ie unnecessary suffering) manner. Killing a mouse with a trap that does the killing quickly, I don't have any problem with, but these traps just pin the creature in place so that it cannot get away and slowly dehydrates to death.

I empathize but how's that better than an old cow being slowly eaten alive by coyotes when it gets into the wrong pasture? Or a horse breaking a leg and... I mean it's nasty. Or a chicken dying of infection because it's getting pecked by other chickens? Or hell, a mouse being poisoned and eaten by a snake or other creature? I feel like growing up next to a farm vs working on a farm is a big difference and there's a l…

It’s not, but one you have control over and deliberately do and the other you don’t.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#87

Post by Zak »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #71
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #70

I'm a meat eater with a clear conscience and I don't count myself as an animal lover, but, man, those traps are horrible. Last summer, someone placed one in the house I was staying. We had a plumber over to fix the kitchen sink and as he was working on it, a little country mouse poked its head out of a hole on the side. The lady of the house freaked out and the plumber advised her to get a couple of "glues" to trap i…

And I don't think rat poison is any better. Another time I was outside my work building and I saw a mouse just standing there in the middle of the driveway. I walked right up to it and it didn't run. I squatted down next to it and I saw it was heaving and shivering, like it was trying to regurgitate something. All the time I sat there and watched it, it didn't once seemed to acknowledge me. Sometimes they only eat a…

Rat poisons are often designed to work slowly because rats are cautious about eating large amounts of unfamiliar food. If they eat a small amount and don't notice any symptoms within a few hours to a day, they're more likely to come back for a lethal dose. Some of the poisons take weeks to kill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodenticide

Nonlethal methods of mitigating human-rodent conflict tend to be effective in the long-term and consist of making human spaces less appealing to rodents. Steps include sealing holes in buildings, storing food in secure containers, and disposing of waste properly.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#88

Post by nightwing »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #52

Nice to see some sane, compassionate comments here to balance out the psychopaths who can't even empathize with a mouse. Weird how people always seem to brag about how little empathy they have for animals whether it's a submission about glue traps or Beyond Meat. Though you usually need showdead=true to see them.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not.

The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by hand, on a silicon computer, or with real atoms. Mathematical function can not be evil or good by itself, and the difference between pain and joy must not be that large (otherwise there would not be masochists).

Killing is bad because you are taking the computational resources from someone else, and likely reducing the number of possible futures. But if you have already decided that you are going to kill the exact amount of suffering during that doesn't matter.

I wish someone could give me a logical argument why the proposition above is crazy and why not causing pain while killing is important.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#89

Post by inimino »

nightwing wrote: post #88
hombre_fatal wrote: post #52

Nice to see some sane, compassionate comments here to balance out the psychopaths who can't even empathize with a mouse. Weird how people always seem to brag about how little empathy they have for animals whether it's a submission about glue traps or Beyond Meat. Though you usually need showdead=true to see them.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not. The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by ha…

The logical response to "it's all just computation" is "put your hand in this box, I have a 'computation' I'd like to run."

Sometimes logic isn't enough to get out of the trap that logic got you into in the first place.

Re: Glue traps are cruel, and retailers should be banned from selling them

#90

Post by nightwing »

inimino wrote: post #89
nightwing wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am probably one of those psychopaths you are talking about. If i saw a mouse in a trap i would set him free, but if he is going to die anyway i don't particularly care if he suffers or not. The logic by which i come to this conclusion is following: Any living creature can be simulated on a sufficiently good computer, so both pain and joy are just some calculations, and it doesn't matter if calculation is done by ha…

The logical response to "it's all just computation" is "put your hand in this box, I have a 'computation' I'd like to run." Sometimes logic isn't enough to get out of the trap that logic got you into in the first place.

If you can recompute my hand back after that, i'd be happy to put it in whatever box you want, the thing that is valuable to me is the time i still have to live, not the absence of all pain. If i had lots of time, and sufficiently advanced technology, i'd happily play realistic games where i had to go through torture by medieval inquisition, or other interesting ways of dying. And i'll be happy to go through any amount of suffering if i knew that i have a week to live anyway, and my suffering can help science or someone i care about.

Maybe in some situations logic isn't enough (though i doubt that), but in situations like that thoughtless comment in the style "wHaT iF i CuT YoUr HaNd" is not enough either:)

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