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Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

ai.google

61–70 of 137 posts

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#61
post #59

What's interesting to me here is not the ACL thing, it's how in a way 'straight forward' this all seems to be. It's the large architecture of a fairly basic system, done I supposed 'professionally'. I'm curious to know how this works organizationally. What kind of architects involved because this system would have to interact with any number of others, so how do they do requirements gathering? Do they just 'have expe…

Especially at Google, you first see the same problem appearing and getting solved in multiple products, then someone tries to come up with a more generic solution that works for most projects and, just as importantly, can serve more traffic than the existing solutions. Having to rewrite things on a regular basis because of growth is painful, but can also be a blessing in disguise. Who that someone is who works on the…

This project says way more about the organization than any specific technical competence.

I'm not close to Google, but from those I know on the product side it can be 'a Gaggle' with nobody really in charge ... but I guess if you have enough self-motivated conscientious actors, and mature people, without ugly turf wars, who can have reasonable discussions, and responsible enough people in charge that can steer things in an appropriate direction ... it works.

But the fact this is an evolution and not a 'new product' is probably prerequisite - so many smart people are hard to coral around new ideas, but if it's done A B C times, then a 'Z' solution speaks to an Engineers sense of efficiency and it should be natural for such an org to want to do it.

I won't name names, but I worked at a large tech company that could not get 'Single Sign On' to work. It was really frustrating to think so many reasonably smart people couldn't figure that out.

We don't need genius I think just a wealth of experience and a lot of common sense.

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of needed in the cloud war where many actually question if the mysterious Google supermacy in global infrastructure is really true.

Throwing servers at the problem is less impressive then thinking very hard and solving it with less.

there's physical limit as what algorithms and tricks can do. Their numbers are incredible though.

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#63

What do other large (non-google scale) to medium companies use for authorization? Can anyone recommend open source (preferably) or close source products?

We use Keycloak at our place and are really happy with it.

Website: https://www.keycloak.org/

GitHub: https://github.com/keycloak/keycloak

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#64

I love reading about Google's systems, but I wish I could work on those problems at scale, that is my dream really. I wonder what more systems Google has that we don't know about. I know Borg has become what we know as k8s but surely there must be more things that Google has made internally that are not open source. Curious about this and would like to know more about it from anyone in the trenches at Google.

Colossus is their data center scale filesystem. They dont talk about it..

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#65

I love reading about Google's systems, but I wish I could work on those problems at scale, that is my dream really. I wonder what more systems Google has that we don't know about. I know Borg has become what we know as k8s but surely there must be more things that Google has made internally that are not open source. Curious about this and would like to know more about it from anyone in the trenches at Google.

The harsh truth of working at Google is that in the end you are moving protobufs from one place to another. They have the most talented people in the world but those people still have to do some boring engineering work.

Sandstorm.io kentonv protobufs?

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of needed in the cloud war where many actually question if the mysterious Google supermacy in global infrastructure is really true.

Throwing servers at the problem is less impressive then thinking very hard and solving it with less.

If your conclusion is "throwing servers at problems" after years of reading the papers about Google infrastructure, you probably are a non infrastructure guy.

A serious conclusion should be that all these infrastructure enable application devs and researchers alike "to throw servers at problem". And these work are exactly the opposite, where they spent years and sometimes even decades meditating the nifty and figure out the most effective and efficient way of utilizing the servers.

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#68
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work in finance and you can move integers around!

Work in the news industry and you can flip booleans! (too subtle?)

> (too subtle?)

It was for me! :-)

(Of course, because it's after 5pm somewhere, I'm unfortunately already lit)

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#69
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do give p99 latencies in the table on page 10

99 - 99.9 - That is amazing.

I'm not saying this is the case at all, but I've noticed through experience that depending on how a system at scale is distributed that .1% outside your 99.9% may be impacting a specific user or group of users, or group of resources, or etc. So they may be getting 100% of their requests outside your 99.9% latency.

Something interesting to think about.

Re: Zanzibar: Consistent, Global Authorization System

#70
post #62
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwing servers at the problem is less impressive then thinking very hard and solving it with less.

there's physical limit as what algorithms and tricks can do. Their numbers are incredible though.

And there's much new fun to be had when you have this many servers around. For example - once you start shuffling around tens of petabytes a day you quickly notice that bit flips are very real. Computers do what we tell them to do with incredibly high probability, but it is always below 1.
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