I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project • Hacker News Board

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#161

Post by kbenson » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:27 PM UTC

olliej wrote: post #56

trillcyborg wrote: post #37

Hey guys its cool to see that you like my project. Unfortunately these types of things happen to independent contractors often and theres not a whole lot you can do about it but learn from mistakes. I used some awesome tech for the first time in this one like react-native-web which is now in Expo and react-spring for those sexy animations. Im happy for any of you guys to use this project as a boilerplate, learn some…

Have you ever seen mike monteiro’s “fuck you pay me” talk? Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid you could always have dmca’d them when they deployed. But that’s the vindictive side of me :D

That's an awesome talk.[1] It's one of those ones that you can see once, and whenever a particular topic is brought up (in this case non-payment of a contract) you immediately remember multiple parts of it, even a decade later.

To be clear, this is a strong second endorsement.

1: https://creativemornings.com/talks/mike-monteiro--2/1

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#162

Post by Brian_K_White » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:29 PM UTC

jiveturkey wrote: post #141

xwdv wrote: post #81

Don’t understand why someone would throw away their integrity by doing this. When a client refuses to pay, the standard procedure is to take them to court and then make them pay what is owed + attorney fees. Instead, this developer has put himself on industry blacklists by doing this. No way he’ll be trusted with sensitive projects. Don’t do this.

I don't agree with that assessment, but I do wonder why mention the client or client non-payment at all. If he wants to bother to mention the breach of contract, he should go all in and publish the client's name. Otherwise, just publish it as code written on his own time. (Which it was, at the end.)

Why not? Are you worried that one day you would be outed as such a client if everyone went around doing this?

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#163

Post by Brian_K_White » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:31 PM UTC

Only cockroaches fear the light.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#164

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:33 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #71

olliej wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen mike monteiro’s “fuck you pay me” talk? Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid you could always have dmca’d them when they deployed. But that’s the vindictive side of me :D

> Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid Why would this matter? If he's not paid, what validity does the contract have?

Absent the contract copyright would naturally remain with the author. The contract needs to be valid for it to be transferred to the business.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#165

Post by Brian_K_White » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

nryuk wrote: post #27

As someone who occasionally does recruiting for developers and always do some quick searches for GitHub profiles. You'd be dropped as a potential candidate on our team if we stumbled upon this, "After he signed and I began building he decided to pivot and not pay me." Just screams unprofessionalism in my opinion.

And yet, I read his comment, and I read your comment, and if I had to choose who to work with in any capacity (I could be any of employer, employee, vendor, customer, purchasing agent in this arena), it would be him over you.

Just saying the word "professionalism" doesn't make you the one who is more professiional, or make your concept of professinalism the better one.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#166

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

novaleaf wrote: post #160

rsanek wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered small claims court? They have low filing fees and typically disallow lawyers.

small claims court in my state (WA) is limited to aprox $5000. This awkward area between $6k to $15k seems to be a sweet spot for abusive business practices (intentional or otherwise) because of the big time and financial commitment it takes to pursue. EDIT: Also I should add that it's not guaranteed that legal fees can be reclaimed from successful litigation. This is probably the main reason I keep putting it off (a…

Can you not sue them for 5K even if your actual damages are 7?

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#167

Post by futureastronaut » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

Another take on this would be to open source components developed, but not the application itself, and be more subtle about the client mess. That's a better way to get some positive marketing out of what would be wasted time.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#168

Post by Nursie » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

fj39dkf wrote: post #154

Nursie wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> usually the contractors never own the copyright to code written for other people. Under the terms of the contract that's now void due to non-payment?

That's not really how contracts work. A contract is only "void" if it contains something fundamentally illegal, or if someone was forced to sign it. And that would be determined in court, not automatically. The guy who promised to pay is breaching the contract by not paying, and the contractor's recourse is to sue him in civil court for the money.

That depends very much on the terms of the contract and how the rights to the work were approached. If the rights were only to transfer upon payment, or not at all, then this action is entirely appropriate.

It sounds very much like this was a freelancer creating a product, not a contractor providing work.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#169

Post by sowbug » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #71

olliej wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever seen mike monteiro’s “fuck you pay me” talk? Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid you could always have dmca’d them when they deployed. But that’s the vindictive side of me :D

> Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid Why would this matter? If he's not paid, what validity does the contract have?

That's what contracts are for. They specify a set of promises and what happens when they're broken. If necessary, courts will step in and enforce the contract terms.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#170

Post by sowbug » Sat, Jun 08, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #81

Don’t understand why someone would throw away their integrity by doing this. When a client refuses to pay, the standard procedure is to take them to court and then make them pay what is owed + attorney fees. Instead, this developer has put himself on industry blacklists by doing this. No way he’ll be trusted with sensitive projects. Don’t do this.

Taking them to court is not standard at all. For one thing, in the US, parties normally bear their own attorneys' fees, regardless of who prevails in court. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_(attorney%27s_fe.... So even if this dispute actually did ever go to trial, the coder wouldn't be made whole. Unless the dollar amount in question is very high, no rational actor would bother going to court. (The contract might include a provision awarding attorneys' fees to the prevailing party, but see the next point -- nothing from nothing leaves nothing.)

For another, an attorney wouldn't even take this case in the first place. The relevant expression is "you can't get blood from a stone." What good would suing do when your adversary is a defunct LLC, or a wantrepreneur whose credit-card debt likely exceeds his or her assets?