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I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

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Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#121

Post by monocasa »

Animats wrote: post #41

This thing wants the password for your bank account? WTF? That's way more than it needs. Enough info to authorize an ACH transfer, maybe. But the login password for your bank account? No way. That voids Bank of America's security guarantee.[1] If you provide info for an ACH transfer, and the other party abuses that info, it's reversible. If you provide login info and the other party abuses that info, it's not. [1] ht…

That's how Mint works too last time I checked. It also wanted the BS security question answers of the type "what's your dog's favorite color?"

Banks need to provide APIs, IMO.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#122

Post by imjustsaying »

Thrymr wrote: post #84
thaumasiotes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assuming that your contract leaves you with copyright until you’re paid Why would this matter? If he's not paid, what validity does the contract have?

That's really a question for lawyers to answer with regards to the specific contract.

Lawyers do not have the sole ability to answer such questions. I learned contract law from a business professor who wasn't a lawyer.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#123

Post by qafy »

Animats wrote: post #41

This thing wants the password for your bank account? WTF? That's way more than it needs. Enough info to authorize an ACH transfer, maybe. But the login password for your bank account? No way. That voids Bank of America's security guarantee.[1] If you provide info for an ACH transfer, and the other party abuses that info, it's reversible. If you provide login info and the other party abuses that info, it's not. [1] ht…

If you aren't comfortable with that you better not use any fintech apps like Cash App, Venmo, Wealthfront, Robinhood, any Intuit products, etc. These services use Plaid (like this app does) or similar APIs like Quovo, Yodlee, etc. Even financial institutions themselves like Citi Bank, American Express, Chime, PayPal, etc use these APIs to link your accounts.

And to be clear, the app itself never has access to your credentials. This all happens in an iframe that tokenizes your credentials.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#124

Post by finkin1 »

neya wrote: post #102

Most contracts always have a clause about IP which usually states the work done for the project is the clients' IP regardless of you got paid or not. The smarter thing to do without violating this clause is to add "Fuck you pay me" sort of notices inside the application that doesn't allow the user to use the software until you get paid AKA kill switch. Kill switches are pretty easy to implement and you usually obscur…

I run a dev shop and that's not how our contract works.

Here's our transfer of work clause:

"Transfer of Work. Except for any portion of the deliverables subject to license terms (collectively, the “licensed materials”), Stratosphere initially owns all rights in the work created. Subject only to Stratosphere’s receipt of the fees and costs described in the applicable SOW, Stratosphere assigns all of its right, title and interest in and to the deliverables (other than the licensed materials) provided to you by Stratosphere under that SOW. Licensed materials are copyright of their original authors and provided subject to the terms of their applicable licenses or the license terms described in the SOW. You may not use licensed materials other than as described in the SOW or their applicable licenses."

In case you're wondering, our lawyer is Gabe Levine, the same lawyer in the famous "F*ck you, Pay Me" talk by Mike Monteiro.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#125

Post by mdpopescu »

neya wrote: post #102

Most contracts always have a clause about IP which usually states the work done for the project is the clients' IP regardless of you got paid or not. The smarter thing to do without violating this clause is to add "Fuck you pay me" sort of notices inside the application that doesn't allow the user to use the software until you get paid AKA kill switch. Kill switches are pretty easy to implement and you usually obscur…

Ouch. There's a good chance this might be considered hacking under some interpretation of US laws. I wouldn't do it.

Set up frequent milestones and get paid for them.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#126

Post by kwhitefoot »

davedx wrote: post #112
maaaats wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe they solve it with laws. PSD2 forces banks to become open, and allow others to make services on top.

*will solve it with laws. I'm working with a fintech company in Germany at the moment that asks users for their internet banking credentials. Apparently it's quite common in Germany.

That's very strange. Here in Norway we have a unified login system for banks and state services that lets you set up the login with your own bank then any other service that needs you to log in will delegate the login process to your bank and never needs any of your details except for your personnummer (social security number in US/UK I suppose). Then your bank either asks for a code from a one time pad or sends a message to the sim card on your mobile and asks you to confirm with a pin code. It then tells the other entity that you are who you say you are and you are connected. It's called BankID. Beats me why practically everywhere else is so primitive.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#127

Post by viseztrance »

oh_sigh wrote: post #117
xwdv wrote: post #81

Don’t understand why someone would throw away their integrity by doing this. When a client refuses to pay, the standard procedure is to take them to court and then make them pay what is owed + attorney fees. Instead, this developer has put himself on industry blacklists by doing this. No way he’ll be trusted with sensitive projects. Don’t do this.

There are no 'industry blacklists' for small consultant developers. And I really doubt any legitimate operation would blacklist somebody for their entirely legal actions after a contract was broken. If you hire me to build a book case for you, but then you decide to not pay me after the work is done, should I just destroy the book case and hope for better luck next time? Why couldn't I give the book case away for fre…

Most of us are developers and can easily empathize with the OP, but any prospective employer seeing this will wonder about the other half of the story.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#128

Post by finkin1 »

paulsutter wrote: post #107

If a vendor doesn't pay you, call a collections lawyer. Generally speaking the client owns the code whether or not they've paid yet. Of course if the client agrees this is fine. But it's not fine if the client hasn't agreed. Stunts like this are a really bad idea. There's a right way to do it, and it works really well. Call a collections lawyer.

My understanding is that the person who produces the work produces generally owns the code until they are paid. Obviously it depends on the specifics of the signed agreement, but I'm curious why you think the client owns the code by default?

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#129

Post by negamax »

nryuk wrote: post #27

As someone who occasionally does recruiting for developers and always do some quick searches for GitHub profiles. You'd be dropped as a potential candidate on our team if we stumbled upon this, "After he signed and I began building he decided to pivot and not pay me." Just screams unprofessionalism in my opinion.

You are on HN and have this 100 year old business ideals? I want to see profiles and repos of people you recruit.

Re: I didn't get paid, so I open-sourced my client’s project

#130

Post by ryacko »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #23
coldtea wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whereas a license such as AGPLv3 would help ensure he'd actually get paid if this client decided it wanted to use it again. a) So would any competitor to the client. b) The client can use the AGPLv3 version gratis too, even if they modify it, as it will be on their own server anyway.

> b) The client can use the AGPLv3 version gratis too, even if they modify it, as it will be on their own server anyway. The AGPL covers using code in servers. They would have to provide code for any server side changes.

License exceptions exist, including the "The Software shall be used for Good, not Evil" exception.

It just wouldn't be free software anymore.

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