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WeChat and the Surveillance State

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Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#51

Post by nullwasamistake »

NotPaidToPost wrote: post #7

Whatever WeChat's links with policing in China, I believe that they have an equivalent of Face ID to authenticate users. Keeping in mind that WeChat is used as an electronic wallet and almost bank account in China. It would have been better journalism to mention this instead of only going for the angle of state policing. It's likely that WeChat already had the person's biometrics details because of the above. Of cour…

I've got a bunch of cards and empty bank accounts sitting around, none ever asked for biometrics.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#52

Post by Aelius »

Swinx43 wrote: post #10
xyzal wrote: post #3

This maybe implies a use case where deepfakes could actually used be to the benefit of society.

I honestly see it going the other way. Deepfakes being used to create fake material that falsely incriminates someone. So if they have the biometrics of an account on file already, they would match a fake video circulating the service to that account and presto you are on a watch list.

I could imagine a "resistance" bombarding wechat with so much garbage that the PRC wouldn't be able to trust intel gathered from it.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#53

Post by chvid »

komali2 wrote: post #38

I used to hold a kind of naive hope that the ham fisted Party would eventually be replaced with democracy. I remember back in 2011 my friends that were placed in moderately distinguished positions were sending their kids to Canada to collect foreign dual citizenship, fully expecting the collapse of the PRC in their lifetime. But now I think the Party is too good at maintaining itself. It's augmented by technology lik…

I think China take will the path to democracy most other democratic nations have taken including my own: As the middle class eventually grows big enough it will demand and get political influence ultimately creating democratic institutions (formal freedom of speech, parliaments, elections, referendums) as we have it in the west.

It is easy to focus on a single news story and forgetting that China is a much freer society today than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#54

Post by colordrops »

komali2 wrote: post #30
Cypher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder how long it's going to be before we see WhatsApp and the surveillance state articles.

I dunno. We're not anywhere near the level of China (here in the USA). To achieve that, we'd need 1. The fourth estate to become a government agency (functionally) 2. Facebook to have government agents on-site that employees have to follow the orders of 3. The existence of a "department of cultural well-being" with total authority to regulate art, media, news, etc 4. Laws on the books outlawing esoteric orwellian con…

1.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/03/my-life-as-a-new-york-ti...

https://theintercept.com/2014/09/04/former-l-times-reporter-...

http://www.carlbernstein.com/magazine_cia_and_media.php

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-cia-and-the-media-50-facts...

2.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/facebook-advocates-go...

http://fortune.com/2018/05/17/facebook-atlantic-council-elec...

3 & 4.

There is an up swell in support for banning forms of speech and "dangerous ideas".

https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/event/will-america...

https://www.vox.com/2019/3/4/18197209/free-speech-philosophy...

Corporations have been the ones to do most of the censorship at the moment:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deplatforming

But there isn't much difference between corporations and the government in the US at the moment:

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93industrial_co...

https://www.newsweek.com/assange-google-not-what-it-seems-27...

What it boils down to is that the narrative of the US is that we are "free" and a "democracy", so the powerful must use more subtle and subversive techniques to achieve the same goals as autocrats elsewhere such as China.

Don't get me wrong, the US is still better than China on this front, but my response is simply to say that it's not so binary.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#55

Post by pishpash »

vajaya wrote: post #14

basically Chinese government doesn't want its citizens to talk anything cultural, political, spiritual, religious, etc. If you wanna talk fashion, food, travel, music, and the likes, that's absolutely fine. and it seems Chinese people are perfectly content with it. I heard that wechat is transparent to Chinese authority. Last year, a dozens of college students who are Marxist activists and advocate for workers' right…

Don't make blanket statements about billions of people like "they are content with it". Some might be, some might appear to be, some might not have thought about it, some might very much not be.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#56

Post by pishpash »

ridewinter wrote: post #31
Cypher wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well worker rights is a fantasy in the west too. Google and facebook track our every moves and the NSA can watch over our every move. The scary thing is few journalist are left to talk about it over here.

Nonsense. I don’t know of a single person afraid to express their political views in western countries, no matter how extreme or bizarre.

[flagged]

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#57

Post by jimclegg »

throwaway84_TO wrote: post #36
Cypher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder how long it's going to be before we see WhatsApp and the surveillance state articles.

I think that in the west, we have a different dynamic between tech and government - one that makes a huge difference. In China, it would appear that the government is deeply involved with WeChat (which itself, is deeply entrenched in everybody's lives). This close co-operation gives them access and control to monitor their citizens - leaving the possibility of an Orwellian system. In the west, instead, its a little b…

>In the west, instead, its a little bit more back and forth between tech and government.

Hand over data or shut down your company is the ultimatum.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#58

Post by pishpash »

dannyw wrote: post #45
komali2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NSA can't watch our every move, that's illegal. We learned from Edward Snowden that they do so for some people anyway, illegally. It's bad and wrong. It's not nearly at the level of China. America doesn't have xinjiang reeducation camps for political dissidents that also happens to be full of people charged with the crime of being religious. America isn't harvesting the organs of its prisoners against their will.…

Broadly speaking, while the NSA’s spying is illegal, horrible, and despicable, they are not known to be used for political intimidation and censorship. I can very loudly protest against the president, or the NSA itself without fear of retribution. *Exceptions exist but these principles are 10000x stronger than China.

You've not heard of how the FBI tracked MLK, or anybody else who presented a genuine threat to the state or state ideology?

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#59

Post by jimclegg »

komali2 wrote: post #35
dvduval wrote: post #21

Facebook/Twitter have been used to manipulate politics in many countries. China does not want WeChat to be used in a similar way. Somehow here in the US/West everyone gets the real news?

The Chinese government will use WeChat data to arrest and make dissidents vanish. Fakenews is not a threat great enough to justify this. There is no equivalence between what is happening in China and what we are dealing with in the USA.

Kind of like the US government using Facebook data/communications to arrest people?

Sounds very equal.

Re: WeChat and the Surveillance State

#60

Post by jimclegg »

komali2 wrote: post #30
Cypher wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder how long it's going to be before we see WhatsApp and the surveillance state articles.

I dunno. We're not anywhere near the level of China (here in the USA). To achieve that, we'd need 1. The fourth estate to become a government agency (functionally) 2. Facebook to have government agents on-site that employees have to follow the orders of 3. The existence of a "department of cultural well-being" with total authority to regulate art, media, news, etc 4. Laws on the books outlawing esoteric orwellian con…

Facebook's board of directors doesn't include goverment agents (even if retired)?
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