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I left the ad industry because of data tracking

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Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#171

Post by overthemoon »

YUMad wrote: post #95
overthemoon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is paranoid. I remember the story about Facebook doing emotional manipulation through the feed, but you go from there to hyper rich hedge funds and shadowy intelligence agencies at the reins of public life shaping the course of history through social media black magic. I don't doubt there are bad actors trying to do bad things via advertising and social media, but this is quite the claim. The rich and powerful a…

It is weird that he comments on that, and not that it's become the most advertised interracial coupling even tho IRL it's the 2nd least common interracial coupling? Or are you just trying to ad-hominem him?

Where's the ad hom? I'm not implying anything about the commenter, and I clearly didn't state anything about them. I just wanted more information about why that specifically is an example of an attempt to move the Overton window. Given the premise of the comment--that immensely wealthy and powerful (but apparently nameless) organizations are shaping public opinion of the masses via social media and advertising--they would choose positive feelings about miscegenation or black men in general over, I don't know, foreign policy, consumerism, or expansive federal power. It's weird. I called it weird. I stand by it.

For crying out loud, the commenter didn't even establish with evidence that it really is a pattern, or what "their" goal could even be.

EDIT Just noticed your username. Congrats, you got people riled up.

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#172

Post by chessturk »

ikeyany wrote: post #159
trophycase wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good joke but I think this applies mostly to TV advertising

I wonder why advertisers would want to pit races against each other. What possible benefit could come from making people unhappy?

I'm not buying a lot of this "motif" usage stuff, but if you want to speak entirely speculatively, I'll bite.

Marxism extensively argues that it is easiest to oppress people when you categorize them differently. An example would be how poor whites weakened the rights of free slaves in post Civil War America. Marx would argue the rich propagated racist beliefs to the poor whites who then limited the rights of other poor people. The end result is the poor limit their own democratic representation. Scientific Socialism is an essay by Engles (coauthor of the Commumist Manifesto) where he argues all oppression is based off of sexism (infantilization, dehumanization, objectification) and shows how the concepts of oppression are modified for race and class, so each group appears different but are actually the same. How this would apply to advertisers might be to preserve the status quo, or to make people feel bad to compulsively buy.

Not saying I agree with every aspect of those arguments, but it is a well documented attempt at answering your question.

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#173

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

rfrey wrote: post #77
kgwxd wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant ads were never the goal, it's just the least creepy sounding excuse for spying.

What is the goal then, for profit seeking advertising companies like Google and Facebook?

Scam the advertisers.

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#174

Post by YUMad »

heer4it wrote: post #152
YUMad wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just the good old ad hominem then? I simply pointed out a fact: there is a significant discrepancy between the rate of black male + white female couplings IRL and in the media. I am bringing no judgement on it. Considering how frothy at the mouth you got over this fact being mentioned, you are no better than those 'racist cretins' you try to insinuate I am part of. Do you actually have any valid arguments to dispu…

To be frank, I don't think you've actually conducted an empirical comparison of "black male + white female couplings IRL and in the media", nor do I think such a discrepancy would be worthy of comment even if it exists, and perhaps most importantly, I do not believe in the innocent motives of anyone who brings up the subject and then acts like they are only attempting to make an innocuous anthropological observation.…

Yet you keep commenting, while actually avoiding the answer. You keep going in circle, trying to insinuate things about me based on the topic, while working hard to pretend the topic is irrelevant. Do you even see the dichotomy in your actions?

> I'm not interested in a 'debate' about race-mixing with you. I just want to point out that when you tell on yourself like this, both online and IRL, people notice, and we'll treat you accordingly.

Ah yes, upgrade from ad hominem to attempts of silencing through threats. Keep going. You think people don't notice _that_?

There is a significant discrepancy between coupling rates of black male + white female IRL (2nd least common pairing) and in media.

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#176

Post by throwayEngineer »

michaelt wrote: post #154
throwayEngineer wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Don't you want to hear your different lawyer options, STD check options, gun options, alcohol help, etc? Or rather, would you rather have useful advertisement or spammy advertisement? I still could not relate that those would be bad. The only thing I can imagine is blackmail. Which is cultural and not moral.

I still could not relate that those would be bad. I believe the ad tech industry would literally show alcohol ads to recovering alcoholics if A/B testing or 'machine learning' said they converted at higher rates. I believe the ad tech industry does not protect medical and political data with the appropriate level of privacy protection. So even if they wouldn't sell their database of gay Iranians to Iran, I think they…

Is there any proof this happens?

The hacked thing is about as scary as it gets, but companies need to keep customers happy.

Btw, ad block is not a solution. Short sighted to mention that.

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#177

Post by YUMad »

spaced-out wrote: post #151
YUMad wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just the good old ad hominem then? I simply pointed out a fact: there is a significant discrepancy between the rate of black male + white female couplings IRL and in the media. I am bringing no judgement on it. Considering how frothy at the mouth you got over this fact being mentioned, you are no better than those 'racist cretins' you try to insinuate I am part of. Do you actually have any valid arguments to dispu…

>Considering how frothy at the mouth you got over this fact being mentioned Is it a fact, or just your imagination? Does this fact come from statistics or your gut?

Did I type what you're responding to, or is it your imagination?

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#178

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

drdeadringer wrote: post #116
xfitm3 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad targeting is intentionally fuzzy to avoid creeping you out. Companies like Acxiom have an incredible amount of data on you. https://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-targ...

> to avoid creeping you out I assume in terms of "how did they know this about me?" a la Tom Cruise being advertised a particular brand of alcohol based on an automatic eye-scan whilst walking through a public space ["Minority Report"]. I used to be "creeped out" about this about 10 years ago. Now-a-days I am not. To be honest, a part of me wants this type of thing. I'm all for exploring knew products and "discovery"…

Acxiom tracks menstrual cycles on every woman. That isn't creepy?

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#179

Post by godshatter »

jorams wrote: post #167

At some point companies like Fast Company have to accept that they are a significant part of the problem, and just writing articles about it is not enough. This page contains a ridiculous number of trackers. The site pulls in content from the following 3rd-party domains: s.skimresources.com, sb.scorecardresearch.com, secure-cdn.mplxtms.com, z.moatads.com, ml314.com, secure-us.imrworldwide.com, www.googletagservices.c…

They also have the distinction of being the first page I've ever run across where temporarily enabling javascript on their domain causes the page not to load, whereas leaving it off does make it load. Makes "forbid fastcompany.com" an easy choice.

Re: I left the ad industry because of data tracking

#180

Post by overthemoon »

somatic wrote: post #87
overthemoon wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is paranoid. I remember the story about Facebook doing emotional manipulation through the feed, but you go from there to hyper rich hedge funds and shadowy intelligence agencies at the reins of public life shaping the course of history through social media black magic. I don't doubt there are bad actors trying to do bad things via advertising and social media, but this is quite the claim. The rich and powerful a…

I don’t know about you, but the Snowden Revelations dramatically shifted my baseline of “paranoid schizo”. Before, I thought the prospect utterly bananas that “the government” was tapping every phone call, strong-arming ISPs, and intercepting mail en route to its destination. Then I found myself in a rabbit hole of Tuskegee experiments, Operation Northwoodses, MKULTRAs, human-animal hybrids, and so on. Now, the quest…

I have similar feelings, don't get me wrong. I too have experienced that shift. I guess I just want to know, is what technologically possible?

I see two possibilities here: one is a handful of unimaginably wealthy and powerful hedge funds and intelligence organizations (heretofore unnamed) which are somehow coordinated in their efforts to shift public opinion to... something. The example given is something about black men, white women, and white men. I'm not sure what that means.

The other, IMO far more believable scenario, is that there are many interested parties using social media and advertisement in general to change people's minds about a myriad of topics and issues, which is not remarkable except to the extent that new technology and new techniques are being used, which we may not fully understand or be aware of.

The first requires a belief in a conspiracy among the hyper rich and powerful to create some ill-defined new world, the other does not. Both are technologically possible, but I find one more convincing than the other.

Edited to add that last sentence and to correct some awkward wording.

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