How to get rich without getting lucky (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#141

Post by deepGem » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #125

pawanrawal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, started as a poor kid in India doesn't really present the whole picture. He was lucky that his family moved to New York when he was 9 which broadened the scope of opportunities he had. From the Wiki article, "Ravikant moved to New York City with his family at the age of 9". I still think what he has achieved is great and love some of what he shares but Naval can sometimes make things sound grander than they are…

And moving to the US with your whole family is not a cheap or easy operation; it costs money, you need a job, a house, and from abroad, a working visa. I find it hard to believe he was a poor kid.

It is not an easy operation and neither cheap. However, in those days getting a working visa was probably a no brainer. I really applaud his parents for taking that route. Usually employers sponsor the airfare. Still, a very gutsy move.

One of my uncles went to Carnegie Mellon on a full scholarship in the 80s.He hailed from a village where education was the least priority. He was very poor but figured his way out without any money. It can be done.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#142

Post by flavor8 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:46 AM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #89

"I started as a poor kid in India, so if I can make it, anybody can, in that sense." I agree with most of the advice and Naval's musing. But let's not pretend opportunity is mostly equal. He attended Stuyvesant [0], one of the highest acclaimed high school educations [1][2]. I'm sure that had a bit to do with how the rest panned out compared to just anyone. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AngelList [1] https://www.…

There's plenty of luck involved. He probably won some genetic lottery that contributed to his intelligence (genes = about 50% of intelligence). He (presumably, having only skimmed) also was lucky enough to have had a stable family life, managed to avoid major trauma as a child, and I can see from the rest of the thread also had a good education (environment = much of the rest of intelligence.)

Of course, he did apply himself and take initiative to get where he got. But, it's dangerous to work backwards from success stories and say "well, anybody could have really done what I did, ergo anybody who didn't is [....]"

That said, I wonder how many of the really driven entrepreneurs among us started from lower than middle rungs in society, and/or share the "immigrant mentality".

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#143

Post by notahacker » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 8:52 AM UTC

jraines wrote: post #19

JamesBarney wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you nailed it with the term "parody" of every piece of self-help advice out there. This post reads like a buzzfeed article "21 ways to get rich". Here's a thousand soundbytes that very aren't actionable or who knows if any of them are right.

David Foster Wallace said something about how when elite athletes try to say how they got there, it ends up sounding mostly like clichés, but that it's probably because most clichés became such because they hold some truth[1]. And yeah, they definitely look worse when listed off in bulk. You're probably best off picking a small handful that play to your strengths as a person and figuring out how to ruthlessly make ha…

Don't elite athletes' explanations of how they got there sound mostly like clichés because their stories are so similar to the aspirations and training and effort [initially] put in by the athletes who didn't make it to elite level?

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#144

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:02 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #138

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a guarantee, but the right kind of schooling - in the educational sense, the networking sense, and the passing on of class-appropriate behaviours sense - hugely improves the odds of success. As this article proves. The ability to invest disposable income is a defining class marker in the US. You don't get to play the game if you literally have no surplus income - and many Americans don't.

> You don't get to play the game if you literally have no surplus income - and many Americans don't. Except...he was a poor Indian immigrant who presumably did not have disposal income. So how then did he not only play the game, but seemingly win it?

It's an uncomfortable and often painful truth for many. Climbing an insurmountable mountain, whether it is a personal failing, or desire, one will start to justify their own failings. It's the human psyche after all. But what they miss is belief, a leap, faith, the fire within themselves, etc...

I like to think of Heracles. He had his twelve labours. It's a metaphor for not giving up, no matter how large the challenge is.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#145

Post by n4r9 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

temp129038 wrote: post #36

I listened to the Rogan podcast and was definitely confused by some of the arguments he makes e.g. he claimed the celebrities are the "most miserable people in the world" because they get a disproportionate amount of hate directed toward them due to their status as public figures (or something). I don't believe that for a minute. I was also a bit surprised by the discussion around questioning the truth behind climate…

I can easily believe that about celebrities. Wouldn't be at all surprised if the rate of mental health issues is much higher than average in celebrities.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#146

Post by n4r9 » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:08 AM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #117

JamesBarney wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he's arguing buying stock instead of a nice car will make you wealthier? No argument here.

Well yes, buying stock, sure - though a small shareholding in a mature stock is not going to get you very far. But a significant shareholding in a small-medium business that provides a valuable product/service and ends up generating steady cash flows over the long term seems like the optimal approach in terms of risk/reward, and is something that a lot of people in the world could figure out how to do if they put the…

How easy is it to go from nothing to a position where you can afford to make a "significant shareholding" in a small-medium business?

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#147

Post by sintaxi » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:31 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #128

undefined1 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He actually made that point on Rogan's podcast, referencing Nassim Taleb: "I am, at the Fed level, libertarian; at the state level, Republican; at the local level, Democrat; and at the family and friends level, a socialist."

Unfortunately that's self-serving nonsense. You're either context-aware or you're not. If you're trying to cherry pick the levels at which you're context-aware, it means you're not context-aware at all. The more complex social contexts don't stop operating just because you don't believe in them.

He is being context-aware. He is pointing out that as the size of the group increases the complexity of the system also increases while accountability decreases.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#148

Post by Hasknewbie » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

fzeroracer wrote: post #67

This article honestly read like something out of a bullshit self-help book. There's a lot of tidbits in there that sort of ignore the reality for most people and how one small injury, accident etc can spiral out of control and bankrupt someone, at least in America. But reading this part especially stood out to me > We all know people who are consistently pessimistic, who will shoot down everything. Everyone in their…

To me this part is particularly amusing, since one of the most successful and lauded CEO ever was that notoriously hyper-critical guy named Steve Jobs. Turns out people whose "job is to shoot holes in things" can do pretty well...

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#149

Post by ekianjo » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #122

dm3730 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Naval can sometimes make things sound grander than they are. Please share a specific thing. Just curious.

When he was 9 his parents moved to New York and he then attended one of the best schools in the US. Referring to his childhood as "I started as a poor kid in India" ignores that and makes it sounds like his later success has nothing to do with his privileged (but no less well-earned and deserved) education.

> his parents

He said he was raised by a single-mom, so shouldn't that be singular?

She also apparently worked two jobs just to make sure he had an education. In that sense Naval was certainly lucky to have someone that supportive, but from what I have heard about him he was also working every little job on the side he could to make money in his early teens'. So they were poor but they seemed definitely hard working.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#150

Post by bubblewrap » Fri, Jun 07, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #92

There's a lot in this article that I'd endorse as a first-pass approximation of the truth for orienting oneself towards productive behaviors. But... There's a number of places where Naval is mixing the concerns of "status" and "values." This isn't an easy distinction to make, because status essentially exists by the standard of one form of values or another, but without this distinction you can gather both ideas like…

He describes how to get wealthy, though. You can "eat" wealth (it means "how to generate something to eat", basically). You can't eat status.

Sure, he may be playing the status game in parallel - in a sense, everybody is, because everybody wants to be appreciated. But he is not asking people to suck up to him because of his high status.