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How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

nav.al

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Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#131

Post by mjfl »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #125
pawanrawal wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, started as a poor kid in India doesn't really present the whole picture. He was lucky that his family moved to New York when he was 9 which broadened the scope of opportunities he had. From the Wiki article, "Ravikant moved to New York City with his family at the age of 9". I still think what he has achieved is great and love some of what he shares but Naval can sometimes make things sound grander than they are…

And moving to the US with your whole family is not a cheap or easy operation; it costs money, you need a job, a house, and from abroad, a working visa. I find it hard to believe he was a poor kid.

I don't. There are millions of immigrants who move to the US and live very poor, despite affording the journey to the US.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#132

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

gowld wrote: post #69
firstplacelast wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. The wealthiest person I ever dated (he wasn't super wealthy while we were together just doing well, but I just saw him a month ago and he was excited because he CAN retire now but doesn't want to - he's 38) spent TONS of money doing rich people things in the pursuit of wealth, he stretched his bank account very thin over and over doing this. Going to Sundance, Cannes, Burning Man, TED, etc to network. Spend…

How did he make his money, in the end? A talented software developer can make enough money to retire as comfortable middle class by 38, by getting a job at a FAANG by age 25. The thought of going to Burning Man for millionaire-business networking makes me sick, the quintessence of how Silicon Valley tech bros are murdering human culture.

Perhaps that's one reason these events exist - FAANG and start-up schmooze fests sweetened with a sprinkling of cultural sugar frosting.

Also, data point of one. Sometimes faking it doesn't work out so well.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/09/anna-sorokin...

Of course that's the far side of the line - someone with no real income at all. But if your networking expenses are regularly on the far side of your income and you don't have some kind of track record to prove to yourself you can make the networking work, you're playing some very high stakes poker.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#133

Post by csomar »

> We are the only animals in the animal kingdom that cooperate across genetic boundaries. Most animals don’t even cooperate. But when they do, they cooperate only in packs where they co-evolve together, and they share blood, so they have some shared interests.

Pretty certain that lots of animals co-operate. Dogs and Cats are two examples. Dogs will "take care" of your babies. (not changing diapers but primitive protection).

I thought humans used horses but it is more complicated than that when I visited a farmer. He does have a genuine relation with his horses and without co-operation the horse will throw you out of his back.

Still he is comparing different species to different races of the same specie. Not quite a fair game.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#134

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #127
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He attended Stuyvesant [0], one of the highest acclaimed high school educations [1][2]. I'm sure that had a bit to do with how the rest panned out compared to just anyone. It also doesn't guarantee that you will be successful in life. My closest childhood friend attended CMU full ride and was a CS major. I last saw him in my hometown disheveled and pushing a shopping cart around. What you do with what you are given…

It's not a guarantee, but the right kind of schooling - in the educational sense, the networking sense, and the passing on of class-appropriate behaviours sense - hugely improves the odds of success. As this article proves. The ability to invest disposable income is a defining class marker in the US. You don't get to play the game if you literally have no surplus income - and many Americans don't.

> in the educational sense, the networking sense, and the passing on of class-appropriate behaviours sense - hugely improves the odds of success.

That's fair. I agree on this point. The network at an Ivy League can open doors for you that a state school could never open for you.

But I disagree on one point. It comes down to ambition. It's almost like a fire within your soul. If you have that fire kindled within you, it won't matter where you started from.

I have seen miracles in my life. A man with no arms and legs going around with a motorized wheelchair, using his chin to control acceleration/deceleration. When I saw this man, I realized that I was holding my self back. Anything is possible. If that man who had no limbs could walk, I had no excuses to give anymore.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#135

Post by EliRivers »

csomar wrote: post #133

> We are the only animals in the animal kingdom that cooperate across genetic boundaries. Most animals don’t even cooperate. But when they do, they cooperate only in packs where they co-evolve together, and they share blood, so they have some shared interests. Pretty certain that lots of animals co-operate. Dogs and Cats are two examples. Dogs will "take care" of your babies. (not changing diapers but primitive prote…

Pretty certain that lots of animals co-operate.

Oh yes, lots. Here are some really interesting ones betweens species.

https://listverse.com/2015/02/23/10-amazing-cooperations-bet...

There are many more.

As for cooperation "across genetic boundaries" within a species, I can think of lots without even having to search. Vampire bats sharing blood with unlucky fellow bats who didn't find anything comes to mind.

It seems that almost every time someone (often someone trying to make a point about human exceptionalism without having bothered to actually check if they're talking nonsense) makes a statement that "humans are the only creature to exhibit behaviour X", a counter-example is only a websearch away. I've come to strongly suspect that there isn't any special or unique quality humans have that no other species does; we differ only on the scale of some of them and perhaps got lucky with a few physical characteristics that lent themselves to additional uses (although that's very speculative; we built ourselves a society and a way of life perfectly suited for our shape and characteristics, so of course that shape and characteristics look really helpful).

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#136

Post by lars512 »

whatamidoingyo wrote: post #50
busymom0 wrote: post #8

> Study microeconomics, game theory, psychology, persuasion, ethics, mathematics, and computers. Anyone have any book recommendations for these? Any favorites?

>Psychology >Persuasion Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion is a must read. Also, Robert Greene books, such as the 48 Laws of Power, Mastery, etc. are really good as well, but the 48 Laws of Power gave me a weird feeling. You should also read Edward Bernays, as he's one of the fathers of modern marketing/media. (Disclaimer: I'm not a psychologist). >Mathematics I like to go through text books, but my absolute fav…

The 48 Laws of Power also gave me a strange feeling, it was hard for me to express it at the time.

It seemed like a manual for operating in a world where you and everyone around you is motivated by increasing their power, a zero-sum world of dominance.

That might be true locally for the environments in which some people operate, but it’s not true generally for everyone, since luckily humans are equipped with more complex motivations than only the desire to dominate others.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#138

Post by darawk »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #127
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He attended Stuyvesant [0], one of the highest acclaimed high school educations [1][2]. I'm sure that had a bit to do with how the rest panned out compared to just anyone. It also doesn't guarantee that you will be successful in life. My closest childhood friend attended CMU full ride and was a CS major. I last saw him in my hometown disheveled and pushing a shopping cart around. What you do with what you are given…

It's not a guarantee, but the right kind of schooling - in the educational sense, the networking sense, and the passing on of class-appropriate behaviours sense - hugely improves the odds of success. As this article proves. The ability to invest disposable income is a defining class marker in the US. You don't get to play the game if you literally have no surplus income - and many Americans don't.

> You don't get to play the game if you literally have no surplus income - and many Americans don't.

Except...he was a poor Indian immigrant who presumably did not have disposal income. So how then did he not only play the game, but seemingly win it?

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#139

Post by deepGem »

reducesuffering wrote: post #89

"I started as a poor kid in India, so if I can make it, anybody can, in that sense." I agree with most of the advice and Naval's musing. But let's not pretend opportunity is mostly equal. He attended Stuyvesant [0], one of the highest acclaimed high school educations [1][2]. I'm sure that had a bit to do with how the rest panned out compared to just anyone. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AngelList [1] https://www.…

From the same wiki article what I gather is that attending Stuy has nothing to do with economic status or money. It is very selective in a merit based admissions test and the tuition is free.

It is very plausible that he was a poor kid in India, parents put all their savings to immigrate to US, and by sheer hard work he got into Stuy. You can't rule out that possibility.

Re: How to get rich without getting lucky (2018)

#140

Post by darawk »

wwweston wrote: post #92

There's a lot in this article that I'd endorse as a first-pass approximation of the truth for orienting oneself towards productive behaviors. But... There's a number of places where Naval is mixing the concerns of "status" and "values." This isn't an easy distinction to make, because status essentially exists by the standard of one form of values or another, but without this distinction you can gather both ideas like…

I like what I think you're trying to say...but:

> Once you understand this, though, it's easier to note that this piece is itself a bid in a status game -- it defines a set of values and sets them up as higher than a competing set of values. And the set of values he's advocating seems to be one by whose standards he would have a high status. ;)

I don't think this is actually true. As far as I can tell, Naval isn't setting up any particular set of values as higher than any other. He's not saying that you should or must want wealth. He's speaking to you on the assumption that you share this value. I don't think he's trying to justify that value being better or higher than any other set of values.

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