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Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

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Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#161

Post by panzagl »

ameister14 wrote: post #115
panzagl wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it go beyond? The systems discussed either grab public social media, or monitor information created on the schools' machines. I don't know that there is a reasonable expectation of privacy on either.

First, I'd say monitoring profanity, the word 'gay,' mentions of drugs and sex, etc. does not have bearing on the primary issue at hand: gun violence. If you can outline for me how giving a student body principal information on a student setting up a dating profile serves to solve the issue of mass shootings, I'd appreciate it. Second, the systems discussed pull information from student's phones and directly monitor…

Actually, thinking about it, mass violence is probably secondary in these systems to predicting suicidal behavior. And while you can argue a principal shouldn't have to worry if a kid is bullied into suicide, or whether an underage girl is using a dating site to find external validation, you better believe they'll be the first ones blamed when a 15 year old girl goes missing after meeting a guy on a dating site she accessed during math class.

But I don't know of anywhere that provides you a computer, email address, whatever, without language saying they are for approved use only and can be monitored. From what I read the 'pulling information' was after a device was connected to a computer, most likely caused by school administrators and students not understanding how the system reacts when it sees a new drive attached. This isn't invading kids deepest darkest secrets, like asking them to accept a cacert or whatever.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#162

Post by LanceH »

yepguy wrote: post #21

To fight this, I don't think we should be talking about privacy or rights. That's all very important, but society is already fairly desensitized to that language, and the pro-surveillance side can literally point to the dead bodies of real children. Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children. Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an inc…

My solution is generally to apply the same rules to the people enforcing the rules. Drug test students? Drug test the administration, superintendents, board of education, etc...

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#163

Post by analog31 »

Maximus9000 wrote: post #13
xfitm3 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speechless. This is egregious and unacceptable. I'm thankful this kind of stuff didnt exist when I grew up.

> I'm thankful this kind of stuff didnt exist when I grew up. If I had a nickel for every time I've heard an adult say this phrase lately, I'd be rich! Did adults used to say this phrase 30 years ago? What are we doing to ourselves and our kids?

Chipping in my nickel here... I believe that my life as a kid was easier than what my own kids have now. It was less cutthroat, more forgiving, more free in terms of having chances to learn and explore things on my own. Some of the reasons are inflicted by society and technology, some doubtlessly by their parents (including me).

Stats on things like depression and suicide might reflect this, don't know enough of the details to say for sure.

I don't think my parents felt the same way.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#164

Post by icelancer »

yepguy wrote: post #21

To fight this, I don't think we should be talking about privacy or rights. That's all very important, but society is already fairly desensitized to that language, and the pro-surveillance side can literally point to the dead bodies of real children. Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children. Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an inc…

>> Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an increasingly narrow range of acceptable behavior...

Most parents want this.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#165

Post by icelancer »

DoubleCribble wrote: post #124
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

I disagree. The lesson here is: you teach the students how to protect their anonymity. For example, would you ever sign your name to some rude graffiti/foul language you drew in the boys/girls bathroom stall at school? Of course not! Why is online any different?

You don't need to teach the kids this. They are already moving towards peer-to-peer, encrypted, and ephemeral forms of communication. They also lock their Instagrams, have secondary fake Instagrams (finstas), and obscure their identities.

All the EFF privacy advocates who desperately hope that people will listen to them miss the forest for the trees. The kids are smart. They're adapting. Just like we did.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#166

Post by throwaway66666 »

elliekelly wrote: post #54

> Evergreen Public Schools in Washington state, for example, started using the company's service this school year. Between September and mid-March, the system flagged more than 9,000 incidents in the 26,000-student district. The overwhelming majority-84 percent-were for minor violations, such as profanity. The fact that the system even monitors for profanity at all tells me its purpose has a lot more to do with stude…

You think these schools and teachers want to educate kids? These people want to just get their salary at the end of the month and eliminate all potential liabilities that could get them in trouble.

They would ban eye contact and speaking to each other, if it would bring them more peace of mind and job security. Kinda like dictators do...

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#167

Post by shearskill »

spaginal wrote: post #154
dmitrygr wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents can probably help here. School is unlikely to punish the bullied for self-defense if a parent threatens a VERY PUBLIC VERY EXPENSIVE LAWSUIT for his kid being punished for self-defense. Actual lawsuit not needed, the treat will likely be enough. If our legal system provides for self-defense, schools should fall in line. Yes, I know that enforcing this and finding out who hit whom first is hard, well, nobody s…

I don’t think it needs to get there. Schools need to back off the punishment and let the children sort it out and keep eyes on them afterwards. If it continues after the altercation, step in to help mediate, but otherwise we need to be teaching children healthy and constructive conflict resolution so it carries into their adulthood. Like I said, sometimes this may involve a physical confrontation, but for two childre…

There was a case recently where 2 nine year old girls fought in a classroom and the substitute didn’t stop it in time. One girl sustained a head injury that later killed her. There is no way to sanction physical violence in a school setting. Restorative justice is a better solution and teaches kids real problem solving but that requires resources and training.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#169

Post by pjc50 »

Mirioron wrote: post #7

I cannot believe that these people are so dense: > "Why would it have a chilling effect if the superintendent of the school might see something that slips through the system about someone went hunting?" he asked. "There's no threat." How is the following not harm? > He pointed to a recent incident in which Social Sentinel flagged a college student who threatened on Twitter to shoot his professor for scheduling an ear…

Consequence of widespread gun availability: all petty threats have to be taken seriously. In a world where every few months someone does turn up and murder several people at school, which is then all over the national news, it's hard to see how it can be otherwise.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#170

Post by jrandm »

treis wrote: post #67
SolaceQuantum wrote: post #2

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

>OK, I think we really need to investigate protecting the privacy of our youth. This is effectvely acclimating our children to minimal privacy as enforced by authoritarian organizations. There's no privacy when you post things publicly on the internet.

I think it's important to distinguish that many of the things being monitored are not being posted publicly. From the article:

> In 2016, the company expanded that analysis to students' school email accounts, monitoring all messages sent over district networks.

> Gaggle monitors the digital content created by nearly 5 million U.S. K-12 students. That includes all their files, messages, and class assignments created and stored

> "opened a Google Doc, wrote down concerns about a boy in class acting strange, then typed every bad word they could think of"

I can see both sides of monitoring school equipment, or at least maintaining the ability to access it, but I don't believe most people here would consent to active content monitoring of every email, document, message, and drafts of documents even on workplace devices

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