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Joyent Public Cloud EOL

docs.joyent.com

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Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#121

Post by tedunangst »

throw0101a wrote: post #98
hinkley wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will also hear a lot of bragging about how much more robust the partitioning is on Solaris versus Linux. Which is why they did the work to get Linux containers running on top of Solaris instead of just doing Linux.

I haven't been paying attention recently, but last time I checked, there were no known escapes out of Solaris zones, while there are quite a few CVEs about escaping Linux containers and even QEMU/KVM/Xen. The one escape out of FreeBSD jails that I'm aware of (CVE-2005-2218) involved not a bug in the jails code, but by burrowing out via devfs. So it seems that OS-level virtualization/security has a better track record…

Are you counting kernel exploits not directly related to jails/containers as an escape?

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#122

Post by milesward »

joeblubaugh wrote: post #6

Wow, 5 months is an insanely short timetable to ask people to migrate entire systems to another vendor. I’m surprised their contracts don’t have better terms.

I work at a shop (SADA) that can help with migrations if you feel the pinch: @milesward on twitter is a good way to reach out.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#123

Post by emmelaich »

skrebbel wrote: post #28

Can anyone explain Joyent to me? My understanding always was that they're some special kind of hosting provider. But I never really got it. They sponsor Node.js, they sponsor all kinds of ex-Sun Solaris-related stuff, employing high profile people from both communities. What does supporting (and, at a time in the past, basically running) Node.js get a hosting provider? What about Joyent's products is related to Node…

From the announcement, they still offer > .... Fully-Managed Private Cloud, Managed Hardware Private Cloud, and On-Premise Private Cloud

If you look into their docs, it's a layer above components such as Docker, VMs, cloud hardware, even Openstack.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#124

Post by Chyzwar »

cookiecaper wrote: post #110
throw0101a wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been paying attention recently, but last time I checked, there were no known escapes out of Solaris zones, while there are quite a few CVEs about escaping Linux containers and even QEMU/KVM/Xen. The one escape out of FreeBSD jails that I'm aware of (CVE-2005-2218) involved not a bug in the jails code, but by burrowing out via devfs. So it seems that OS-level virtualization/security has a better track record…

Yes, for a very long time the Linux devs were emphatic that cgroups should be not be treated as an actual isolation/security barrier. This was flagrantly ignored and like most things in the Linux ecosystem, the functionality was eventually kinda-sorta backfilled based on the community's refusal to accept anything else. Meanwhile, FreeBSD and Solaris had quietly provided coherent tools to accomplish the same ends secu…

I disagree.

Linux have 18 millions lines of code in drivers. It can run on almost any chip/architecture. Distributions are fully featured and most of the things you can imagine have first class support.

I do not care how beautiful is architecture of BSD kernel if I cannot run my code on it.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#125

Post by jen20 »

RantyDave wrote: post #116
jaytaylor wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, do clouds with physical bare-metal provisioning capabilities like EC2 / GCP / Azure / OCI kill the Joyent value proposition?

Joyent's value proposition was killed (for the most part) by the experience of using their public interface. It would've taken a great deal of bravery to try that and decide a local install would be better. The node thing also did a lot of damage - Joyent wrote a lot of the SmartOS/Triton command line tools in node so they were slow as hell. Triton itself is a very non-trivial install although quite probably less so…

> Triton itself is a very non-trivial install

Actually I'd say the Triton install is not only trivial, but should be a model for other similar systems. During my testing with Intel NUCs, I had a usable system deploying containers in under 20 minutes. Most managed Kubernetes systems cannot even provision in that time frame.

> you just can't run SmartOS on the cloud.

The installer may lead you to the USB and install path, but it is not necessary. I built Vagrant boxes that had SmartOS on a regular disk, and I believe that more recently SmartOS has been running well in GCP. There is no reason it could not run in AWS or Azure, either.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#126

Post by bcantrill »

rjzzleep wrote: post #93
bogomipz wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Joyent was built around SmartOS? Although I never really understood the significance of the different Open Solaris forks. Or are these the same?

Disclaimer: I have a smartos setup because for now it still runs quite stable. Joyent/SmartOS was the one that added KVM support and a bunch of other features to the kernel, but I think it was merged into IllumOS. It's quite limited and has a clunky interface. When I tried to contact anyone there to add UEFI boot support there wasn't even so much of a: "we don't care". The problem with SmartOS, Illumos and the rest o…

As communities go, I think we in the illumos and SmartOS communities pride ourselves on being helpful, so I'm sorry that that wasn't your experience. Speaking personally, I have always tried to meet applications where they were -- and I believe that this is reflected in our work on KVM and LX and bhyve. That said, documentation can always be improved -- and in particular, the wiki was an infamous mess that was recently replaced by a much better docs site[1].

My apologies again for your experience, and I don't think it's indicative of the community. I would encourage anyone who wants to get involved on the mailing lists or hop into #illumos and/or #smartos on freenode![2]

[1] https://illumos.org/docs/

[2] https://illumos.org/docs/community/

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#127

Post by zzzcpan »

SwellJoe wrote: post #102
skrebbel wrote: post #28

Can anyone explain Joyent to me? My understanding always was that they're some special kind of hosting provider. But I never really got it. They sponsor Node.js, they sponsor all kinds of ex-Sun Solaris-related stuff, employing high profile people from both communities. What does supporting (and, at a time in the past, basically running) Node.js get a hosting provider? What about Joyent's products is related to Node…

Technically speaking, they were quite far ahead of the curve. While VMs were all the rage, they were shipping container-based products (their Sun refugees kept developing Solaris Zones and ZFS in this context). The technical abilities of the Joyent folks were well beyond just about anybody else for a long time. One could argue they were too early. For several years they had the technology to beat Amazon, until Amazon…

> Technically speaking, they were quite far ahead of the curve. While VMs were all the rage, they were shipping container-based products

> The technical abilities of the Joyent folks were well beyond just about anybody else for a long time.

None of that was ever true. Whether they had container-based or VM-based tech was a tiny unimportant detail for a cloud company. Although over engineering in this area certainly made it impossible for them to compete with more traditional hosting companies. And to be able to compete with Amazon they needed something they didn't have - distributed systems background, not Sun background, which was anything but.

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#128

Post by Nux »

I fondly remember Joyent as one of the first companies to do Ruby on Rails hosting right. They were using a combo of FreeBSD, Virtualmin, Apache (proxying to mongrel etc).

Fun times!

Re: Joyent Public Cloud EOL

#130

Post by SwellJoe »

zzzcpan wrote: post #127
SwellJoe wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically speaking, they were quite far ahead of the curve. While VMs were all the rage, they were shipping container-based products (their Sun refugees kept developing Solaris Zones and ZFS in this context). The technical abilities of the Joyent folks were well beyond just about anybody else for a long time. One could argue they were too early. For several years they had the technology to beat Amazon, until Amazon…

> Technically speaking, they were quite far ahead of the curve. While VMs were all the rage, they were shipping container-based products > The technical abilities of the Joyent folks were well beyond just about anybody else for a long time. None of that was ever true. Whether they had container-based or VM-based tech was a tiny unimportant detail for a cloud company. Although over engineering in this area certainly m…

"And to be able to compete with Amazon they needed something they didn't have - distributed systems background, not Sun background, which was anything but."

lol. "The network is the computer."

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