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Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

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21–30 of 64 posts

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#21
Indeed, taking one idea at a time seriously leads to crazy conclusions. You have to take all the ideas you believe seriously.

If you took seriously the one idea that "the purpose of human life is to produce more humans" [SolaceQuantum below], you should be trying to have as many children as possible. For a male with upper-middle class resources, 1000 children should be achievable. (You don't have to raise them, just "produce" them.) A billionaire with strong organizational skills might manage 10^6 children.

This conflicts with the (unstated) idea that children should be raised well, in a nurturing environment with good parenting. Also, that overpopulation is bad. And that other people have an equal right to children. And ...

So I don't think you need epistemic helplessness. You just need a broad perspective.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#24
post #8

There is a connection in his last paragraph to entrepreneurship - I can't place a finger on the exact phasing but I've seen before on HN an essay about the need for an entrepreneur to be "all in" and genuinely swayed by their own arguments. I've definitely observed that in successful business people around me, and observed that I can't seem to do that to myself. While I'm not an entrepreneur, I've often thought to st…

I like the notion of "strong opinions, weakly held": https://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/07/strong_opini...

""" Bob explained that weak opinions are problematic because people aren’t inspired to develop the best arguments possible for them, or to put forth the energy required to test them. Bob explained that it was just as important, however, to not be too attached to what you believe because, otherwise, it undermines your ability to “see” and “hear” evidence that clashes with your opinions. """

I think these strong opinions change when there is information to do so, and that's probably where the whole "stay focused and keep shipping" idea comes from: collect soft feedback, hard metrics, and otherwise information by providing a product-as-a-hypothesis. The more often you ship and measure, the better your direction and your alignment with what people will pay for.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#25
This is essentially the argument I make to friends whenever someone brings up some homeopathic remedy. Most of us are not smart enough or well educated enough to really sift through this stuff and sniff out fact from fiction. Lucky for us there is a whole field of trained professionals who (hopefully) are.

At the same time though, I think it's worth remembering that the placebo effect is real and measurable so if someone claims X, Y or Z cures their headaches maybe they're not lying :-)

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#26
>That is, if you have a valid argument for something, then you should accept the conclusion. Even if the conclusion is unpopular, or inconvenient, or you don’t like it. He envisioned an art of rationality that would make people believe something after it had been proven to them.

Lewis Carroll wrote an essay on this topic:

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/What_the_Tortoise_Said_to_A...

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#27
I'd take his argument even further. I am pretty good at programming. When I have written a program, I believe it's right.

I always test, before moving to production. Always. Even if it seems trivial to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, by argument, that this code is correct. Always test, before moving to production.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#28

This piece would be better without all the preemptive self-congratulations.

It would.

But it is a repost from livejournal, so it's probably over 10 years old. I can understand not wanting to rewrite it.

His newer writing is not like this. On the other hand, his newer writing is not so short.

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#29
post #8

There is a connection in his last paragraph to entrepreneurship - I can't place a finger on the exact phasing but I've seen before on HN an essay about the need for an entrepreneur to be "all in" and genuinely swayed by their own arguments. I've definitely observed that in successful business people around me, and observed that I can't seem to do that to myself. While I'm not an entrepreneur, I've often thought to st…

I like the notion of "strong opinions, weakly held": https://bobsutton.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/07/strong_opini... """ Bob explained that weak opinions are problematic because people aren’t inspired to develop the best arguments possible for them, or to put forth the energy required to test them. Bob explained that it was just as important, however, to not be too attached to what you believe because, otherwise, it…

or to put it another way, the entrepreneur believes the conclusion as if it's the premise and then tries to find the appropriate rationalization to support it.

just like, say, a theist or an atheist, in-between which fits the agnostic (the epistemically helpless person in this case).

Re: Epistemic Learned Helplessness (2013)

#30

I'm curious to query the HN crowd: How do we mesh this learned helplessness on subjects for which there are no definitive studies for? (eg. is the purpose of a human life to produce more humans? How does one formally prove that, and how does one prove those proofs are valid, and the organizations that prove the proofs are valid are also valid?)

At the root you should ask whether a question is a mechanistic one or a philosophical one.
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