The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#551

Post by zdragnar » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:43 PM UTC

Mr_Shiba wrote: post #537

sakopov wrote: post #514

Man, the older I get the more I realize that life is always a balancing act. I immigrated from a 3rd world country (probably a 2nd world now) 20 years ago with my parents. Both of my parents were engineers and both were paid about once a year by their employer because nobody had any money. So we were broke and poor my entire childhood. And yet we always had friends visiting us. There were always celebrations. Seemed…

Lived for a couple of years in America and opted to return to my country for similar reasons as yours Industrialized nations mistake comfort and wealth for happiness

I don't know where in America you lived, but not everywhere is like that. It is a big and diverse place, after all.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#552

Post by jriot » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:45 PM UTC

camelNotation wrote: post #228

xenospn wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

I have less than five kids, but more than one kid. My kids cause me a lot of stress. The burden of knowing I have to deal with them and their energetic, ridiculous antics every day when I get home really drains me. I don't really have time to exercise anymore because from sun-up to sundown I am dealing with them, so I'm slightly overweight and out of shape in a way I was not before I had kids. My diet isn't as divers…

Appears to be a personal choice.

My wife and I have two kids, we are both in the best shape of our lives, eat better than before, and our kids are quite healthy - participating in gymnastics, volleyball, and roller derby.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#553

Post by hi5eyes » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:45 PM UTC

blfr wrote: post #549

sakopov wrote: post #514

Man, the older I get the more I realize that life is always a balancing act. I immigrated from a 3rd world country (probably a 2nd world now) 20 years ago with my parents. Both of my parents were engineers and both were paid about once a year by their employer because nobody had any money. So we were broke and poor my entire childhood. And yet we always had friends visiting us. There were always celebrations. Seemed…

You, too, can strike up a conversation with a total stranger at a bus station and it doesn't have to feel weird. It is, however, likely to be short because people are so unused to it in the atomized west that, if you don't carry the whole conversation, they simply won't know what to say.

its definitely fucking weird to randomly strike up a convo with a random at a bus station, fuck are you on?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#554

Post by vfinn » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:45 PM UTC

Meekro wrote: post #472

vfinn wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to say this, but the tone in your voice towards your son sounds more detached than it should in my opinion. I mean, why would you let him slip into that bleak future you're describing for him? Shouldn't you be the one to wake him up, especially if he lives under your roof. I get it if you don't believe in discipline, but I think that's what is required here (or at least fatherly guidance).

I'm usually the biggest advocate for personal responsibility, reaping what you sow, etc. but I think you may be being too hard on the parent. For one thing, parents lose a lot of power as kids age-- how exactly do you punish a 25 year old living at home? Send him to bed without dinner? Take away his Nintendo Switch? Also, reading between the lines of parent's post, I'm wondering if the son is depressed. Maybe suicida…

A caring father can hurt the child's development by making him feel too comfortable. You can show that you care by putting boundaries. I'm not sure the age matters here. You can cut down the internet, or make him pay rent. You can be hard, and at the same time give him options. Show him somehow that the reality could hit him in the face really hard, if he doesn't change.

There always could be depression behind things, so one has to be careful. Maybe arrange therapy, if necessary. For a young guy to be able to open up to his father could be really hard, especially if he's in a pinch, but acting as if you were a bystander isn't the solution.

(It seems the kid has autism according to the father, so it changes things quite a bit.)

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#555

Post by jxramos » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

Swizec wrote: post #545

sakopov wrote: post #514

Man, the older I get the more I realize that life is always a balancing act. I immigrated from a 3rd world country (probably a 2nd world now) 20 years ago with my parents. Both of my parents were engineers and both were paid about once a year by their employer because nobody had any money. So we were broke and poor my entire childhood. And yet we always had friends visiting us. There were always celebrations. Seemed…

One workaholic to another: There’s plenty of people in the US, even in places like San Francisco, who have balanced lives and don’t spend their whole time working. Put in their 8 or 10 hours per day at a startup then go off and do fun hobbies like standup comedy, singing in church choirs, or just binging Netflix. Hell, my girlfriend has zero sidehustle and she does just great for herself. Working all day erryday is a…

I always appreciated those jobs postings that explicitly mention not working crazy hours. I should keep a journal of such statements. It's an interesting phenomena.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#556

Post by hobofan » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

kadendogthing wrote: post #477

irrational wrote: post #374

Is it just the family, or is it also community institutions? I'm thinking specifically about the decline in church attendance. Regardless of your beliefs, church congregations (not mega-churches, but small congregations of at most a few hundred) provided a built-in community that could provide support, companionship, activities, etc. So far I haven't seen anything that really replicates all those communities had to o…

>I'm thinking specifically about the decline in church attendance. This is an often repeated point but I don't see how it has any credence. Most people who attend churches may talk with each other for just a few hours -- and personally I've found most churches don't really foster a socially-healthy atmosphere. And that's fine, that's not the goals of churches, never has been and most likely never will be. Churches if…

I'm not big on churches, but I'll share a specific anecdotal perspective about a subset of church-related communities: youth groups.

When I grew up, I was an alter boy in our local catholic church. Out of the big 4 youth group options (3 religion related ones + boyscouts) available, it was probably the one with the biggest religious involvement, but that still wasn't much. I was never really that religious and also managed to stay away from most of the church service pretty sucessfully. Anyway, being in that youth group has shaped my social skills a lot, and I've made many great friends through that. I think the same goes for most of the ~15% percent of the local youth between 12-18 that were in one of those youth groups. So I would say for the young people that was at least part of their healthy communities.

Over the last ~7 years all 4 of those groups drastically reduced in member size (1/5 of what they were back then), with nothing comparable taking their place. Whether that in the end turns out to be a good or bad thing, I don't know.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#557

Post by celeritascelery » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

kadendogthing wrote: post #477

irrational wrote: post #374

Is it just the family, or is it also community institutions? I'm thinking specifically about the decline in church attendance. Regardless of your beliefs, church congregations (not mega-churches, but small congregations of at most a few hundred) provided a built-in community that could provide support, companionship, activities, etc. So far I haven't seen anything that really replicates all those communities had to o…

>I'm thinking specifically about the decline in church attendance. This is an often repeated point but I don't see how it has any credence. Most people who attend churches may talk with each other for just a few hours -- and personally I've found most churches don't really foster a socially-healthy atmosphere. And that's fine, that's not the goals of churches, never has been and most likely never will be. Churches if…

I would disagree with this dismissal.

Church attendance is correlated with higher self esteem and better mental health. And the studies I have seen show decreases in suicide and drug use with religion (Though I suppose you can find a study to “prove” anything).

In my experience, church is very much correlated with social health and can help provide the missing elements in a persons life when dealing with the decline of the family. There is a a reason people always talk about their “church family”.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#558

Post by adamc » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:47 PM UTC

sakopov wrote: post #514

Man, the older I get the more I realize that life is always a balancing act. I immigrated from a 3rd world country (probably a 2nd world now) 20 years ago with my parents. Both of my parents were engineers and both were paid about once a year by their employer because nobody had any money. So we were broke and poor my entire childhood. And yet we always had friends visiting us. There were always celebrations. Seemed…

:'(

The older I get, the more certain I am that people come first. No one sits around in old age wishing they had spent longer hours at the office.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#559

Post by bitexploder » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

clarry wrote: post #217

bitexploder wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend social hobbies. Mine are BJJ and Magic the Gathering. BJJ is great because it can be highly technical but you will meet people way outside of nerd circles. My kids do it and love it as well. It is a hard thing, too, so it keeps the ego in check. You have no choice but to be extremely, intimately close with other humans. The friends I am making are great. There are plenty of other hobbies, but start there.…

Don't we all know what BJJ is.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#560

Post by BeetleB » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #491

BeetleB wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're believing in a false dichotomy. You can have a full family experience without doing labor, or working a farm, or a family business. Look at immigrant families from certain parts of the world. When I lived in the Midwest, I interacted with them. Most of them were well educated, and not doing business or laborious work. They were spread apart in different cities, but mostly within driving distance. Cultu…

I see your point here. On the other hand I wonder if we've prematurely jumped to this conclusion that non-immigrant Americans have this horribly individualist culture where we shun all our relatives once we have a professional job. Like, what actual evidence is pointing us to that? Is it just feelings, or is there some kind of metric we can look at? I don't have an answer, just thinking about it.

My example of immigrants was not to imply anything about non-immigrants. I used them simply because they're easy to distinguish (yes, profiling, I guess).

I've definitely seen the same in non-immigrant families. Perhaps more likely from folks who do not come from major cities (I may be wrong). Definitely tend to see it more amongst LDS folks, but it's by no means limited to them.