The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#501

Post by kyllo » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

The fixation on the nuclear family and its supposed decline, is transparently reactionary ideology. The term "nuclear family" was first used in 1947 and didn't even become the most common form of household until the 1960s or so.[1] Prior to that (and still today in many less-industrialized cultures), cohabitation with extended family and communal parenting arrangements were much more common.

You could just as easily blame capitalism for making people lonely by concentrating lucrative employment opportunities in just a few cities and encouraging young people to uproot their lives and relocate for work.

[1] https://bebusinessed.com/history/history-nuclear-families/

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#502

Post by HBKXNCUO » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:21 PM UTC

esoterica wrote: post #451

beat wrote: post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

25 is very young. You’re not going to find many urban, college-educated 25 year olds willing to start a family that early.

Not as far as fertility is concerned. 25 means only a couple of years left at peak fertility.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#503

Post by tasty_freeze » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:23 PM UTC

Nagyman wrote: post #226

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

A lot of people have kids _for themselves_. There are a lot of other endeavours one can pursue that will bring happiness. I think where we fail as a society, is in teaching ourselves how to find those pursuits, surround ourselves with friends, and avoid loneliness. > The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 Hrm, I question the circle of people you're surrounded by. Many millennials are struggling to afford the basi…

Adopt a child. They will have an environmental impact whether you adopt them or not; presumably you will provide them a better life than an orphanage, and you can experience the joys and pains of parenthood.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#504

Post by hobofan » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:23 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #374

Is it just the family, or is it also community institutions? I'm thinking specifically about the decline in church attendance. Regardless of your beliefs, church congregations (not mega-churches, but small congregations of at most a few hundred) provided a built-in community that could provide support, companionship, activities, etc. So far I haven't seen anything that really replicates all those communities had to o…

That's one of my fears as well.

I'm 25, and recently started studying at university where most of my peers are 18-20. After getting to know them for a bit, from everything I've gathered most of them have not been in youth groups of any kind (that topic recently came up during lunch), and are also not involved in any other communities at the moment. Also no bands. The contrast to my friends from high school at that age is crazy.

The difference might be more pronounced due to other factors: They are mostly straight A students vs. I was basically the opposite (though my friends did well in school). They mostly grew up in metropolitan areas vs. us in a semi-rural setting.

But even if those are significant factors, that doesn't make the outlook any better, with more and more pressure being put on children to perform well in school and more and more people moving to big cities.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#505

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:23 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #441

5874-4b22-a4e0 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it sounds like thier son is a f'ng looser. He would've had some sense beaten into him if his parents actually cared.

My dad beat plenty of sense into me. What I learned was to stay the hell away from him and never treat my children the way he treated his. edit: I haven't spoken to my father in over 20 years, and I probably never will again. What finally turned me to this point was having children of my own. I saw what he really was then, and I was determined that he would never have a part in their lives. They're adults now and are…

I think you only got that reply because in your original comment you didn't mention your son's disability. I was wondering myself what you were going to have to do to kick his butt out until you mentioned why he's still at home. Makes a lot more sense with that detail.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#506

Post by criddell » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:25 PM UTC

camelNotation wrote: post #228

xenospn wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

I have less than five kids, but more than one kid. My kids cause me a lot of stress. The burden of knowing I have to deal with them and their energetic, ridiculous antics every day when I get home really drains me. I don't really have time to exercise anymore because from sun-up to sundown I am dealing with them, so I'm slightly overweight and out of shape in a way I was not before I had kids. My diet isn't as divers…

> But if I was given the choice to go back, I wouldn't. I wouldn't even consider it.

There's a speech in the movie Parenthood [1] that expresses a lot of what you just said. With a kid (or kids), the highs are higher, the lows lower. Some want to be on a roller coaster, others are happier on a merry-go-round.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z18vJwmxFFY

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#507

Post by sametmax » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:26 PM UTC

fackfallnass wrote: post #432

sametmax wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I'd like to read a "I must have messed up somewhere". That would be a good starting point to "what can I do about it".

that's a bad attitude to take and leads to a lot of unnecessary guilt about something you have little control over. parents cannot do much to shape the personality and ability of their children in adulthood.

Guilt is unnecessary, agreed. And so is blame. Taking responsibility is. Without, you can't fix your mistakes.

And yes, personality and ability of children are definitely shaped by the parents. Of course, now that the kid is an adult, things are much harder to fix. But that doesn't mean the parents have no role in it.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#508

Post by bregma » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:26 PM UTC

I live in a cabin in the woods. I rarely talk to my family, maybe once or twice a year. My kids have grown up and moved out. I only talk to coworkers when I have to, and until recently I worked remotely. I can go days without vocalizing except to the dog (who does talk back, just in dog). Life is great.

I think society is coming along nicely in the right direction.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#509

Post by natrik » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

graycat wrote: post #425

beat wrote: post #378

My own concerns are different. I'm in my 50s now, happily married for over 25 years, with a terrific social life. I'm not at all lonely or isolated. It's my children that I worry about. They're boy/girl twins, now 25. My daughter is in the process of breaking up with the boyfriend she's lived with for the past two years, and moving back home to re-settle her life. She has a career, and wants to get married and start…

You know a LOT about life and family formation. Sooooo, teach your kids. You've identified some of their worst problems and no doubt have solutions that would work for you, so teach them what you know. For your daughter, lots of men DO want good love, home, and family -- she just needs to find one, likely 10-15 years older than she is (for the reason for the age difference, that needs some discussion I omit here). Wh…

If she is 20 years younger, then he will have to date her until she is 18 or so, but that's okay, too. Mother nature and the lawyers agree: A women of 18 is old enough to get married, have kids, and do well at both.

WTF is this comment.

Please do not take this advice.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#510

Post by mehrdadn » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

armenarmen wrote: post #5

WhompingWindows wrote: post #2

I felt loneliness acutely this week. I live alone, spend most evenings alone, and on top, work's coding and research has been slow for 2 weeks. Collaborators are at conferences and on vacation, so I had much less work and much less face-to-face contact than usual. Given that I code on my own, distribute analyses via email, and occasionally meet if people are around, I barely talked to people some days this week. Goin…

A good longer play to bust out of that is to start working out of an independent cafe. Find one with a lower rate of laptop jockeys but that still has a couple. Bounce around until you find one that feels right: a good amount of regulars, people doodling, and bullshitting with baristas. Show up a couple times a week, drop into the odd conversation. And be ready to say “anyone want to grab a beer” come quitting time.…

Do you mean like going to lots of cafes literally full-time (~8 hours a day) or something? Otherwise how do you possibly bounce around lots of cafes and figure out who the regulars are within just a week?