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The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

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Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it is that you don't bring child into the world to "increase" your own personal happiness. They are (at least in my personal case) the result of my own happiness. And yes they require a lot of work, but all the hard work is totally worth it every time your children look at smile at you.

Forget your feelings and stick to the key question - does the world need more people, less people, or do we have exactly the right amount? I think we have too many, practically every day I see people in my own city that I will never see again in the future. It's chaotic.

>Forget your feelings and stick to the key question - does the world need more people, less people, or do we have exactly the right amount?

HN doesn't have an unwritten rule about expressing emotions, and the person you're responding to didn't dodge any question. Given that the submission is about happiness, it's very much on topic to discuss children and happiness.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#352

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

> They are so used to live their own lives that they have extremely hard time compromising any part of it.

Reminds me of this passage from The Brothers Karamazov:

> “I heard exactly the same thing, a long time ago to be sure, from a doctor,” the elder remarked. “He was then an old man, and unquestionably intelligent. He spoke just as frankly as you, humorously, but with a sorrowful humor. ‘I love mankind,’ he said, ‘but I am amazed at myself: the more I love mankind in general, the less I love people in particular, that is, individually, as separate persons. In my dreams,‘ he said, ‘I often went so far as to think passionately of serving mankind, and, it may be, would really have gone to the cross for people if it were somehow suddenly necessary, and yet I am incapable of living in the same room with anyone even for two days, this I know from experience. As soon as someone is there, close to me, his personality oppresses my self-esteem and restricts my freedom. In twenty-four hours I can begin to hate even the best of men: one because he takes too long eating his dinner, another because he has a cold and keeps blowing his nose. I become the enemy of people the moment they touch me,’ he said. ‘On the other hand, it has always happened that the more I hate people individually, the more ardent becomes my love for humanity as a whole.’”

The speaker goes on to say:

> Love in dreams thirsts for immediate action, quickly performed, and with everyone watching. Indeed, it will go as far as the giving even of one’s life, provided it does not take long but is soon over, as on stage, and everyone is looking on and praising. Whereas active love is labor and perseverance, and for some people, perhaps, a whole science.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#354
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds great! Just be careful not too become too dependent on someone else.

This. Remember to love and invest in yourself for your own sake -- it will make you a better partner too.

Excellent advice. Also, you have to do it for yourself, because you want to be the best version of yourself possible, not because you think it's what someone else wants.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#356
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has to deal with the particular voices in their head. Women, men, genderqueer, whatever color; the voices in our head tailor themselves to attack our own particular worries, because they're part of us. You have a part of you that is aware of the random lucky breaks you've gotten in life, which might not have been lucky in other times or places. That's a fine thing -- it's useful. But then you've got a part o…

> Everyone has to deal with the particular voices in their head. The "voices in their head" that are other people's voices?

Absolutely. These voices have been called "the superego" but lately you might also hear "the voices of inner critics". In some traditions they are referred to as "the adversary", "the liar", "the devil", "the oppressor". People who fall into the void of schizotypal disorders often hear these voices very literally, and are unable to recognize them as their own inner projections of societal judgements. These internalized voices usually miss the point of what external critics are actually saying. They are echos of other peoples voices, cast in the form of our deepest, most ruthless fears and doubts.

That's not to say that people don't go around actually saying awful bigoted things. They do. They have forever. It's up to each of us to sort through them, to listen to them with courage, to protect and care for ourselves in spite of them. And if we truly care about stopping this pain, it's up to each of us to learn how to avoid reacting to external hate with our own flagrant shit.

People of color and poor people have been listening to bigoted lies and hatred for a long time now.

If you want to learn how to care for yourself in the face of internalized hatred, there are so many leaders who have led the way. Martin Luther King helped me. I've also found a lot of understanding from Krista Tippett's podcast "On Being."

'White people' are now compelled to hear a kind of racialized hatred that many have been largely insulated from until now. Maybe it's the internet? Maybe it's the politics? Either way, hate is out here in force right now and it spares no one, not even white people.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#357

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

There's imo a stronger argument that economic/financial factors are far more significant than "feminism." The closing in the employment gap in the 1980s was driven by hyperinflation and consumer debt - everyone had to work to pay the bills. Similarly, contraceptives aren't the reason people have fewer children. It's the fact we can't afford childcare and housing for a family.

These are big factors. I'm also struck, though, by the short historical view most of these comments have. Back in the day, many people "stayed at home", where that means tending the gardens and fields, tending the cows and pigs, hunting for additional protein, gathering for additional carbs and sugars, doing the washing and getting the water. Pre-Industrial Revolution, this whole "men go to work and earn a wage while women stay home" thing did not exist the way it does now. Servants lived in the houses of the people they served, merchants operated as families, and rural people all devoted significant amounts of time to food production. And there was no real choice "not to work" unless you were rich.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people have kids _for themselves_. There are a lot of other endeavours one can pursue that will bring happiness. I think where we fail as a society, is in teaching ourselves how to find those pursuits, surround ourselves with friends, and avoid loneliness. > The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 Hrm, I question the circle of people you're surrounded by. Many millennials are struggling to afford the basi…

> and have growing anti-intellectual culture. From this thread, it would appear to be baked-in as a function of self-selection. One might argue intellectuals have an obligation to procreate.

> One might argue intellectuals have an obligation to procreate.

They already did and their kids are building the world's largest and most powerful surveillance and propaganda systems at Facebook and Google. Unfortunately the "G" in FAANG does not stand for "Greenpeace".

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

Conflating happiness (immediate) with satisfaction (long-term) is exactly the problem, nicely illustrated.

I wish I could upvote a 100 times.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#360
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't we all know what BJJ is.

It seems to be Brazilian Ju-Jitsu, judging by the lack of any other expansions of the acronym in the first page of DuckDuckGo's results.

I wish you had said DDG
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