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Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

pfrazee.hashbase.io

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Re: Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

#12

Post by pfraze »

davidy123 wrote: post #8

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but I find it peculiar this project claims RSS didn't go far enough, then it creates a short-circuited implementation when the actual went-very-far progression for decentralized information, something like RSS-XML-FOAF-RDF-Linked-Data-Solid, uses well established and open ended schemas for much more than this project's basics. With decentralized identifiers (DIDs), it…

We're still building out schemas, so I wouldn't rate the protocol based on the current number. I just didn't want to speculatively add a bunch without having the live system to test against.

If I thought any of the existing standards were winners, I would've gone with them. If you really want to get mad, you can read why I decided not to use RDF or JSON-LD: https://unwalled.garden/docs/why-not-rdf

Re: Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

#13

Post by nonwifehaver3 »

pfraze wrote: post #7
nonwifehaver3 wrote: post #5

This looks awesome! A few questions if anyone knowledgable is around: * Does Unwalled.Garden automatically pin the content of people you follow, so that their stuff stays online if they aren't? * I didn't understand "We also use a second “private” dat for records which should be kept off the network". What is this referring to, the follow request, or some other private content like a DM? I assume that since this is s…

> Does Unwalled.Garden automatically pin the content of people you follow, so that their stuff stays online if they aren't? It gets saved locally so you can access it when they're offline. It'll also be possible to instruct your pinning service to seed it on your behalf. > I didn't understand "We also use a second “private” dat for records which should be kept off the network". I'll talk more about this in the future…

Cool, these folks: https://hashmatter.com/ https://github.com/hashmatter seem to be doing something with onion routing and IPFS, but I'm quite unqualified to understand exactly what or if it's any good.

Re: Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

#14

Post by davidy123 »

pfraze wrote: post #12
davidy123 wrote: post #8

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but I find it peculiar this project claims RSS didn't go far enough, then it creates a short-circuited implementation when the actual went-very-far progression for decentralized information, something like RSS-XML-FOAF-RDF-Linked-Data-Solid, uses well established and open ended schemas for much more than this project's basics. With decentralized identifiers (DIDs), it…

We're still building out schemas, so I wouldn't rate the protocol based on the current number. I just didn't want to speculatively add a bunch without having the live system to test against. If I thought any of the existing standards were winners, I would've gone with them. If you really want to get mad, you can read why I decided not to use RDF or JSON-LD: https://unwalled.garden/docs/why-not-rdf

But this is why libraries are written. As you use each schema (using json-ld, or turtle, or whatever), wrap it with a library, and it becomes as easy to work with as anything. And you're adding to the critical mass of a read-write "web." Programmers need to work with the data and schemas occasionally, everyone else, forever. You've exchanged YAGNI with NIH. Unless you just expect to gain a critical mass, or don't care about participating in that web.

Re: Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

#15

Post by detaro »

pfraze wrote: post #12
davidy123 wrote: post #8

I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but I find it peculiar this project claims RSS didn't go far enough, then it creates a short-circuited implementation when the actual went-very-far progression for decentralized information, something like RSS-XML-FOAF-RDF-Linked-Data-Solid, uses well established and open ended schemas for much more than this project's basics. With decentralized identifiers (DIDs), it…

We're still building out schemas, so I wouldn't rate the protocol based on the current number. I just didn't want to speculatively add a bunch without having the live system to test against. If I thought any of the existing standards were winners, I would've gone with them. If you really want to get mad, you can read why I decided not to use RDF or JSON-LD: https://unwalled.garden/docs/why-not-rdf

Quite a fan of your work with beaker, so curious how this will pan out.

Activitypub implementations seem to fare mostly fine by ignoring that ActivityStreams2 technically is JSON-LD, using it as "just JSON". Curious if you have any particular points against it (I can imagine a few, but would be interested in your take on it).

Re: Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

#16

Post by pfraze »

detaro wrote: post #15
pfraze wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're still building out schemas, so I wouldn't rate the protocol based on the current number. I just didn't want to speculatively add a bunch without having the live system to test against. If I thought any of the existing standards were winners, I would've gone with them. If you really want to get mad, you can read why I decided not to use RDF or JSON-LD: https://unwalled.garden/docs/why-not-rdf

Quite a fan of your work with beaker, so curious how this will pan out. Activitypub implementations seem to fare mostly fine by ignoring that ActivityStreams2 technically is JSON-LD, using it as "just JSON". Curious if you have any particular points against it (I can imagine a few, but would be interested in your take on it).

The main reason I didn't use AP is that it's designed for federated servers and uses a mailboxes network which doesn't fit with Dat & P2P. We may find a way to interop, but it'll require some kind of bridge service, and I didn't really see the point of adopting their schemas if it didn't buy us interop automatically.

Edit: also, thanks!

Re: Unwalled.Garden: souped-up RSS for P2P social apps

#17

Post by pfraze »

davidy123 wrote: post #14
pfraze wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're still building out schemas, so I wouldn't rate the protocol based on the current number. I just didn't want to speculatively add a bunch without having the live system to test against. If I thought any of the existing standards were winners, I would've gone with them. If you really want to get mad, you can read why I decided not to use RDF or JSON-LD: https://unwalled.garden/docs/why-not-rdf

But this is why libraries are written. As you use each schema (using json-ld, or turtle, or whatever), wrap it with a library, and it becomes as easy to work with as anything. And you're adding to the critical mass of a read-write "web." Programmers need to work with the data and schemas occasionally, everyone else, forever. You've exchanged YAGNI with NIH. Unless you just expect to gain a critical mass, or don't car…

It really doesn't become as easy to work with. You still have to wrangle around the RDF "everything is a triple and attributes are URLs" concept, and even if you hid all that away you'd be attempting to gain something as simple as this design is. We just need a way to share & publish objects which link to each other. We don't need the graph model.
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