The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#281

Post by jbigelow76 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

I have noticed that people have been more and more intolerant to family flying with kids.

I think we hear about the bad stuff, some flight attendant or passenger complains, and the logical conclusion of a family with a crying baby is booted is the end result. My counter-anecdote is the exact opposite, my fourteen month old daughter cried the majority of our 3.5 hour return flight and she was quietest (not quiet but quietest) was when I was standing and holding her in the middle of the aisle. Any dirty looks, and I scanned for them occasionally, were non-existent (or I missed them and they never vocalized) and most people either had noise-cancelling headphones or just rolled with it. When we apologized for the noise there was a lot of "Oh ours our teenagers now, we've been there, you're ok!"

Some of it maybe the bigger stink they make the longer it all takes, but a lot of it is probably shared communal experiences. If some baby was wailing their lungs off next to me on a plane, I'd roll with it, the parent(s) is having a far tougher time of it then I am.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#282

Post by ecoled_ame » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

SoylentOrange wrote: post #101

nugget wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of wading into deeply controversal territory, I'll add some personal observations. One of the harsh realities I have seen is that it's very difficult for women to "have it all" meaning a fulfilling personal, family, and professional life, especially in the most competitive fields. Yet for many years this idea has persisted in a mythical sense as broadly achievable. I am now in my late 30s. I've watched my…

I have a serious question for you, curious on your answer. Can men “have it all”? Is “having it all” different for men than women? My experience is that men are able to “have it all” often at the cost of their spouse making sacrifices to stay at home, with the implicit idea that this is the way things are meant to be. If both people in a relationship try to “have it all”, some sacrifices do have to be made (speaking…

Why do people want so much? I love minimalism, owning hardly nothing, saving, having no friends or acquaintances. After reading this thread I feel like everybody else is greedy.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#283

Post by ambicapter » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:08 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #264

40acres wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard someone describe this as the "capstone" vs "conerstone" model. Previous generations got married and had kids much earlier, and built their lives off of that cornerstone. When it comes to me personally and my peers, we see marriage and children more as a capstone -- something to be done once our student loan is paid, or when we're ready to put a down payment on a house, when we get that promotion, etc.

I know two sisters who each got married. The older one practiced worldly prudence, courted during high school, got engaged at beginning of college, and waited almost a decade until after her fiancé graduated before they got married and started to have children. But now he can't get a job with his degree (pharmacist), she works at some retail job as a manager, and the whole family lives with her parents. He's in >$100…

Wow, neither of these examples are at all appetizing as an example of a life well lived!

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#284

Post by rhizome » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

sgslo wrote: post #277

sdegutis wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know two sisters who each got married. The older one practiced worldly prudence, courted during high school, got engaged at beginning of college, and waited almost a decade until after her fiancé graduated before they got married and started to have children. But now he can't get a job with his degree (pharmacist), she works at some retail job as a manager, and the whole family lives with her parents. He's in >$100…

I'm not sure your story proves a whole lot. By the way you phrase it, the outcome of the older sister hinged upon the husband failing to get a job as a pharmacist. If he had successfully landed a job, the outcome of your story would be very different. The same argument could be made for the younger sister. What happens when Walmart downsizes, and the husband is out of job with a background only in retail? I'm not sur…

Plus, I'm under the impression that "can't get a job as a pharmacist" is a rare problem.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#285

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

moorhosj wrote: post #248

brianmc21 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel as though having children will make a lot of people very happy. But there is also a significant part(>1%) of the population that would be miserable. I believe a lot of the unhappiness is often from someone who was pressured into a choice they didn't critically think about or didn't want but caved in. Even if the pool of people is small the experience could be quite negative. Where as all the people who always…

==I took care of my brother and sisters a lot as a child and it made it very clear that I never wanted children.== Being a parent is not the same as taking care of your siblings. Using the experience of one to justify your decisions in another is short-sighted. How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

[deleted]

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#286

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

ecoled_ame wrote: post #247

residentfoam wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it is that you don't bring child into the world to "increase" your own personal happiness. They are (at least in my personal case) the result of my own happiness. And yes they require a lot of work, but all the hard work is totally worth it every time your children look at smile at you.

Forget your feelings and stick to the key question - does the world need more people, less people, or do we have exactly the right amount? I think we have too many, practically every day I see people in my own city that I will never see again in the future. It's chaotic.

Your measure of "too many people" is that you see people in your city and never see them again? That's an amazingly self-centered metric for deciding how many people there should be.

And it's very easy to fix your problem. Just move to a small town.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#287

Post by dpoochieni » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:09 PM UTC

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

In the words of my LTR (a gorgeous and professionally successful woman) "Feminism was the worst thing that happened to women."

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#288

Post by lordnacho » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

jniedrauer wrote: post #189

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

Bringing a child into the world to increase my own personal happiness, when nothing else I could do has such a direct and massive climate impact, is not something I can justify personally. Not to mention, my child would have to live to see the impacts of climate change. There is coming a point (it has already passed, in my opinion), where we can no longer justify our purpose for existence as "creating more humans."

You're going to die someday though, and so will whoever you make the kid with. So that will reduce the impact.

Plus there's an assumption we won't figure out climate change. Why assume that kid will be as bad for the environment as you?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#289

Post by armenarmen » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:10 PM UTC

brailsafe wrote: post #85

armenarmen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good longer play to bust out of that is to start working out of an independent cafe. Find one with a lower rate of laptop jockeys but that still has a couple. Bounce around until you find one that feels right: a good amount of regulars, people doodling, and bullshitting with baristas. Show up a couple times a week, drop into the odd conversation. And be ready to say “anyone want to grab a beer” come quitting time.…

It's a good idea, but I don't don't know about the fastest. I'd recommend your idea and a series of neutral/specific hobbies/sports that give you a wider breadth

No doubt that you’ll have people to chum around with at a meetup. None whatsoever. And it’s a great thing to do both socially and professionally.

I’d say though that the people you meet while shooting the shit at a cafe are more likely to be “general friends” that are based more on shared personalities and humor than a shared interest. As such, these types of friendships feel/are less utilitarian

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#290

Post by kaitai » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 7:11 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #241

kaitai wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has to deal with the particular voices in their head. Women, men, genderqueer, whatever color; the voices in our head tailor themselves to attack our own particular worries, because they're part of us. You have a part of you that is aware of the random lucky breaks you've gotten in life, which might not have been lucky in other times or places. That's a fine thing -- it's useful. But then you've got a part o…

> Everyone has to deal with the particular voices in their head. The "voices in their head" that are other people's voices?

You pick up on some of them. How often do you feel bad about your thigh gap, or lack thereof? It's someone else's comment that you amplify or don't based on your circumstances. How often do you worry about the quality of the embroidery for your trousseau? Guessing not, because it's just not a thing today. How often do you worry that you're evil because you're a white male? How often do you worry that you're a slut and will go to hell?

You're probably not affected by the ads for skin-whitening creams aimed at dark-skinned women. You probably are more affected by the ads that insinuate your pecs aren't big enough. We amplify the negative messages from outside that hit us where we live.