The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness • Hacker News Board

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#241

Post by luckylion » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #225

taway060619 wrote: post #90

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

Everyone has to deal with the particular voices in their head. Women, men, genderqueer, whatever color; the voices in our head tailor themselves to attack our own particular worries, because they're part of us. You have a part of you that is aware of the random lucky breaks you've gotten in life, which might not have been lucky in other times or places. That's a fine thing -- it's useful. But then you've got a part o…

> Everyone has to deal with the particular voices in their head.

The "voices in their head" that are other people's voices?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#242

Post by strikelaserclaw » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

germanlee wrote: post #187

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

Feminism is a symptom rather than the cause. The cause is the commoditization of humans into productivity and consumption units in a post-industrial environment where the state and corporations dominate. Corporations want to extract every bit of production and consumption out of individuals. A woman taking time off for pregnancy or deciding to become a stay-at-home mom is a drain on corporate productivity. And every…

Agreed. A large part of american culture has been engineered consciously or unconsciously to be some sort of productivity/materialistic porno. It is completely unbalanced. The american values nowadays all go towards trying to create an "Übermensch".

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#243

Post by throw0101a » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

kaitai wrote: post #167

xenospn wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

The "science" you're referring to shows that parenting makes people less "happy" in any given moment while doing it and more "content" overall, more "satisfied" in older age. Moreover, there are significant country-by-country differences in these stats that seem to be tied to availability of high-quality, low-cost childcare and healthcare. One place to look for some overview of some of these studies is https://contem…

It's the cost not the kids:

> Having children makes people happier—if they can afford it.

* https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/02/cost-rais...

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#244

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

>I think the society has (wrongly) evolved towards an individualist model at the expenses of families.

that's a wrong dichotomy. There's no fundamental reason why 35 year olds don't socialize, or why our education system stops at 25, why we have no communal institutions, and so on.

The alternative isn't just between individualism and the family, what is needed is building out communities in ways that gives people the ability to connect in new ways that reflect our changes in work and living arrangements.

As the article mentions the UK has introduced a minister for the problem of loneliness. What we need is to put policies into place that develop new modes of social life and to expand the public sphere.

The nuclear family isn't really that attractive any more for a reason, so just asking to go back isn't really a great idea. People like the freedom that comes with having no or fewer children, being able to move, and being financially independent.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#245

Post by curious_fella1 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

Nagyman wrote: post #226

residentfoam wrote: post #106

I have been lucky enough to be able to work and live in several countries around the world. One thing in common I noticed in all these places is that guys and girls don't have time and don't want to commit to a stable long relation. They invest pretty much themselves and their time in their career, traveling , parties, dogs, cats and bitcoins :) ! The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 years old! Travel the world…

A lot of people have kids _for themselves_. There are a lot of other endeavours one can pursue that will bring happiness. I think where we fail as a society, is in teaching ourselves how to find those pursuits, surround ourselves with friends, and avoid loneliness. > The mantra is to get rich and retire at 40 Hrm, I question the circle of people you're surrounded by. Many millennials are struggling to afford the basi…

edit: That seems a little extreme and defeatist IMO.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#246

Post by jfengel » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

WalterGR wrote: post #212

kaitai wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "science" you're referring to shows that parenting makes people less "happy" in any given moment while doing it and more "content" overall, more "satisfied" in older age. Moreover, there are significant country-by-country differences in these stats that seem to be tied to availability of high-quality, low-cost childcare and healthcare. One place to look for some overview of some of these studies is https://contem…

Why did you put science in scare quotes?

I think the intention is a quote rather than a scare quote.

It's a little awkward to quote a single word like that. In that circumstance the following words "... you're referring to" serve the same function. But it does highlight the notion of "you were looking for science, here is science".

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#247

Post by ecoled_ame » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

residentfoam wrote: post #195

jniedrauer wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing a child into the world to increase my own personal happiness, when nothing else I could do has such a direct and massive climate impact, is not something I can justify personally. Not to mention, my child would have to live to see the impacts of climate change. There is coming a point (it has already passed, in my opinion), where we can no longer justify our purpose for existence as "creating more humans."

The way I see it is that you don't bring child into the world to "increase" your own personal happiness. They are (at least in my personal case) the result of my own happiness. And yes they require a lot of work, but all the hard work is totally worth it every time your children look at smile at you.

Forget your feelings and stick to the key question - does the world need more people, less people, or do we have exactly the right amount? I think we have too many, practically every day I see people in my own city that I will never see again in the future. It's chaotic.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#248

Post by moorhosj » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:57 PM UTC

brianmc21 wrote: post #206

xenospn wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having kids is scientifically proven to make you unhappy and greatly increase your stress levels. It’s no wonder people just put off having kids until they can, or pass on having them altogether.

I feel as though having children will make a lot of people very happy. But there is also a significant part(>1%) of the population that would be miserable. I believe a lot of the unhappiness is often from someone who was pressured into a choice they didn't critically think about or didn't want but caved in. Even if the pool of people is small the experience could be quite negative. Where as all the people who always…

==I took care of my brother and sisters a lot as a child and it made it very clear that I never wanted children.==

Being a parent is not the same as taking care of your siblings. Using the experience of one to justify your decisions in another is short-sighted.

How many parents have you ever heard say, "I wish I didn't have kids"?

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#249

Post by SomeOldThrow » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

herr_warrum wrote: post #140

taway060619 wrote: post #90

I’ve been feeling a pretty intense sort of depression and loneliness for the last month or so. The feelings of “you’re a white male and you work in tech and you are wealthy you are a SATAN” is just becoming too much :(. I volunteer a tremendous amount in education, where I’m the only male I generally even see in my field, and I constantly have to listen to my coworkers gleefully talk about how excited they are at how…

You live in Seattle, don't you? The reason I ask is because I feel more or less the same way. I wake up at 6 am so that I can volunteer as a teaching assistant for public school CS classes. I work with a dog rescue, spending weekends cleaning poop out of kennels and walking dogs. And yet, native Seattleites will still accuse me of ruining "their" city. I doubt that most of these people make a fraction of the amount o…

> And yet, native Seattleites will still accuse me of ruining "their" city.

If you listen to them, their complaints are likely not that "there's too much dog poop" and "kids these days just don't know enough cs" but rather "money is making the city unlivable for those not connected to tech".

> I doubt that most of these people make a fraction of the amount of effort that I do to contribute to the community. They just sit on their asses and complain on social media.

You're literally doing the same thing you're accusing them of. Besides, effort is a really poor metric for measuring the effect you have on the world.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#250

Post by strikelaserclaw » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

herr_warrum wrote: post #234

strikelaserclaw wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where the hell do you live that you not only experience this but experience it enough that it affects your mental health. I've lived in multiple states, worked for multiple companies and I've yet to experience either the extreme SJW, or the extreme bigotry/racism side of things.

It's not a problem for you, and therefore not a problem, amiright?

which is why i'm asking him where he lives...