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macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

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Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#401

Post by erikpukinskis »

__full_pint wrote: post #137
erikpukinskis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you're doing anything serious for production then the environment should be containerized. What do you mean?

I’m not OP but: When you build and package things for production you should create an environment. This ensures the packaging the right versioning of requirements for build. Say you build using the system version but use packages based on another version. It may work for you but probably won’t work elsewhere.

But you wouldn’t want to develop in that environment, right? You do integration testing in it, but development should largely happen in small modules, with unit tests and test data, no?

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#402

Post by Geezus42 »

ken wrote: post #76

Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…

I would like to believe that the people who use those features would make the much simpler switch to Linux but with the new WSL and (ridiculous) terminal I know a lot of them will be persuaded to transition into the special hell that is Windows.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#403

Post by olliej »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #116
maheart wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lack of care about API&ABI stability in developer facing open source projects (interpreters, libraries, frameworks, commandline arguments) is still bizarre to me: why make your work hard to use/update? If you're a FOSS developer with limited time and man power (and if you're lucky, limited budget) maintaining backwards compatibility is hard. So hard, that new features and bug fixes might have to take a back sea…

> rebuild their entire systems when new versions of software are released/integrated Yeah, the ability to rebuild the entire system from source whenever you need it has resulted in those communities just not caring about a number of things that really do matter on proprietary systems; it's also part of why Linux doesn't have fat binaries (why bundle multiple architectures together when everybody can just grab or buil…

and it still breaks things if you've built things yourself because they're not part of your distro

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#404

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

e12e wrote: post #396
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal system, but it is not too bad. The essential features of Unix seem to be good ones, and I think I can fill in what Unix lacks without spoiling them. And a system compatible with Unix would be convenient for many other people to adopt.") I have a historical question and I wonder if anyone in this thread has the answer: why did RMS (and, presumably, by then his cycle) had…

In addition to sibling comments, remember that Linus announced Linux as: "Hello everybody out there using minix - I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. (...)" GNU couldn't use MINIX due to the license (unlike minix 3), and as I recall, the bsd's were also in somewhat unclear license terms. Gnu made the libc, compiler and various userland too…

Thanks.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#405

Post by malyk »

taf2 wrote: post #126
tty2300 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing is I have been a rails dev for years and didn't even know it didn't work on windows because I have never tried and don't know any dev ever using windows.

In the early days of rails say 2006, it was definitely more common place... but I guess there were fewer of us back then ... I know as a maintainer of curb I have a few windows users

I started with a ruby/rails project in 2007 and after 3 days of fighting my work issued windows machine I just went out and bought a white macbook and things were up in running in an hour or two. I've never looked back.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#406

Post by TimTheTinker »

frou_dh wrote: post #246
TimTheTinker wrote: post #192

I think this is great, but at the same time, auto-installing homebrew ought to be an option (perhaps enabled by default) when installing the “XCode command line tools”. Better yet, offer a “developer setup” app that sets up the command line tools, homebrew, iTerm2, updated bash/zsh, and more. Apple would do best to pave the cow paths developers have already worn into macOS, especially when it comes to command line ut…

I reject the persistent meme that iTerm2 is somehow essential. Apple do a great job with the builtin Terminal.app

I agree, Terminal is great. But I prefer iTerm because it supports split panes (including saving/restoring a particular configuration) without tmux.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#407

Post by TimTheTinker »

Traster wrote: post #271
TimTheTinker wrote: post #192

I think this is great, but at the same time, auto-installing homebrew ought to be an option (perhaps enabled by default) when installing the “XCode command line tools”. Better yet, offer a “developer setup” app that sets up the command line tools, homebrew, iTerm2, updated bash/zsh, and more. Apple would do best to pave the cow paths developers have already worn into macOS, especially when it comes to command line ut…

I think the second you start auto-favouring one particular tool you're in trouble. Why iTerm2? Why not Alacritty? iTerm2 is more popular now, but 5 years down the line when someone else has come up with a iTerm2 replacement how is Apple meant to decide to switch? Where does Apple draw the line on which tools to add and which to leave out? It sounds like what you're really asking for is something like Ninite for mac,…

My point wasn't so much a plug for iTerm2 or anything else in particular. The purpose of a dev setup app would be to (a - primarily) provide a great default dev environment for curious kids, and (b) pave the way for some of the most popular dev configurations.

I know homebrew and iTerm are pretty popular, and that there are other popular options as well. Why not list the top n in each category, in randomized order, with short descriptions and "learn more" links?

Every time I start work on a different Mac, it usually takes me at least 30 minutes to set it up. It would be nice to have a quick button to set up command line tools, iTerm2, homebrew, zsh, and git. Making such setup available from an app would not only speed up the process, it would also gives the dev environment visibility to newcomers and "first class" status from an IT perspective.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#408

Post by amasad »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #225
jodrellblank wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can open https://repl.it/languages/python3 and start writing Python.

with open("~/Documents/important.csv", "r") as f: f.read() No? Oh well, I guess programming is hard, IT was right. Ok, back to excel...

You can just drag and drop the file on repl.it and it'll just work :)

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#409

Post by paulcarroty »

smashedtoatoms wrote: post #369
nailer wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I moved to Windows about 2 years ago, have been developing node all day during that time and deploying on Linux. It's been great since about node 8. What have your issues been?

Same. Wsl is great. Running ides in wsl even works great, but with vscode, I don’t even do that much anymore. It’s like being on Linux for dev, but having Windows for power management, high dpi settings, drivers, etc. It’s working great, hardware selection is nice, games work. I’m really digging it lately.

> power management, high dpi settings, drivers, etc.

Have the same stuff working on Linux and deploy anything without VM/WSL/telemetry/etc. Guess similar situation with macOS.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#410

Post by arantius »

ioquatix wrote: post #224
crazygringo wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides your tone and language being unwelcome here... you're just factually wrong. Comparing in Google Trends, it's very clear brew is the "de facto" package manager, and has been for years: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...

Talking about factually wrong... If you look at the full picture: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=%2Fm%2F0... "DarwinPorts" was originally released in 2002. You can see it trending and then the name change which occurred in 2006. It's been on a downward trend ever since. Even thought Homebrew was released in 2009, it trends relatively constant for the entire dataset. In fact, from 2009 onward, you…

Your context link is not an accurate measure:

https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=%...

Extend the time window and it also shows that homebrew was more popular than macports in 2004. Despite being released in 2009. (The word "homebrew" refers to more than one thing. Like the thing that the mac package manager was named after.)

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