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The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

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Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#51

Post by UI_at_80x24 »

The Great Lakes have surpassed the 'high-water-level' record set 33 years ago. Therefore, High-Water levels in the Great Lakes cause loneliness.

Correlation != Causation

If you are looking for things "to blame" don't forget about:

-decline in religious-group (church) participation

-stagnate wage increases for 20 years while cost of living increases (result: less of an ability to afford "going out") Also related: more people needing 2+ jobs

-increased internet access/duration/interaction

All of these equate to less 'recreational' time available. Lack of recreation time = less chance to participate in social settings = more loneliness

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#52

Post by decasia »

nugget wrote: post #15

Whatever it is today, I fear the future will be much worse. The most devastating existential consequences of loneliness can take decades to manifest. You feel a little lonely in your day to day life now, but wake up twenty years from now and realize you're socially isolated with no meaningful relationships or community and it's "too late" to make up the lost time. Most dangerous of all may be that online social netwo…

I agree with your first point — like other structural problems, loneliness adds up over time.

But on the second point, I'm really not sure that online social networks are just a "surface-level mirage." I met my spouse online, and many of my closest friendships have developed online, by instant message, etc. I don't think the alternative to "online communication" is necessarily that we will all socialize in person. If we got rid of the internet and instead (just for a random example) we were all alone in our houses reading books by ourselves, I think that would be a step back.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#53

Post by Bakary »

icxa wrote: post #33
codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

> the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. Everyone is unhappy, married people on average are happier than unmarried, religious people are on average happier than unreligious people. The sexual and feminist revolution got some 'splainin to do. Of course, my view, the answer isn't "liberating women from the bonds of motherhood and family" but empowering women and supporting them in ar…

Seems a bit circular to me. If the most important thing a human can do is bring life, then that life also has as its most important mission to bring some more life into the mix and so on. You end up with an endless chain of causation and no real answer as to what makes the entire thing worthwhile.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#55

Post by tomrod »

devoply wrote: post #10
Avshalom wrote: post #4

Yup, sounds about right, decry the death of the multi generational home then decry boomerang kids then decry people living alone.

Yeah the people pushing all these different ideologies basically engineered a culture to be like this. With various ideologies replacing religion (which are themselves really modern religions) that don't really work out the implications of their ideas in any sort of consistent system... instead down with this and down with that, and sure individually those things might be bad but they form some sort of coherent syste…

My experience was that established religions got hungry for tithing and thus optimized their messages with new ideas that ignore tolerance and abuse pluralism. Former adherents are more than excused to dissociate with groups that lack transparency, foster cultures of abuse, or otherwise require rigid in-/out-group splits.

The new world views you refer to that former religious adherents adopt aren't usually terribly radical, and it's a thought-terminating pitfall to call them religions or even spirituality. Much improvement over the new cults of the 1970s.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#56

Post by holy_city »

codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

There's imo a stronger argument that economic/financial factors are far more significant than "feminism." The closing in the employment gap in the 1980s was driven by hyperinflation and consumer debt - everyone had to work to pay the bills.

Similarly, contraceptives aren't the reason people have fewer children. It's the fact we can't afford childcare and housing for a family.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#57

Post by welly »

icxa wrote: post #33
codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

> the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. Everyone is unhappy, married people on average are happier than unmarried, religious people are on average happier than unreligious people. The sexual and feminist revolution got some 'splainin to do. Of course, my view, the answer isn't "liberating women from the bonds of motherhood and family" but empowering women and supporting them in ar…

Is bringing another being into the world the most important thing one can actually do? I'm not sure if you've noticed but we're getting pretty full. And we're living longer. Feels to me like the bus is getting full.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#58

Post by youeseh »

0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #18
codingslave wrote: post #7

I would argue that the decline of the family is directly linked to feminism, or better stated, the liberation of women from the home and from conservative sexual values. The two forces behind that are birth control and women entering the work force. These two are magnified by online dating and social media. I am not saying at all that these are bad things, just that we have yet to see the true effects of feminism on…

Notable mention for flat/declining wages since the average cost of raising kids probably doesn't get cheaper as time goes on. Imaging paying your you and your spouse's student loans, then having two kids and paying their student loans or putting that debt on their shoulders. Much easier before tuition skyrocketed. Healthcare prices are a consideration too.

Better technology and a doubling of the potential workforce probably had more to do with stagnating wages than anything else.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#59

Post by will_brown »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25
throwayEngineer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the way, this might seem revolutionary, but there are plenty of societies ( in history) that didn't have rule by Men and an awakening of feminism. The studies I'm familiar with didn't mention loneliness, but rather the social responsibility.

Can you please provide examples. Birth control has only been available for a short period of history, so its not obvious to most of us what societies you are talking about and how their liberation of women actually affected the society.

>Birth control has only been available for a short period of history,

If you are talking about the pill sure, but there are forms of birth control that date to ancient Egypt, Mesopotamia, And China. Not to say these methods were effective and the book of Genesis did regress things a little with God slaying Onan for practicing the old pull out method, teaching that procreation is for reproduction only.

Re: The decline of the family has unleashed an epidemic of loneliness

#60

Post by 40acres »

My mother, dad, aunts, etc. all immigrated to the US in a period of about 5 years. They all settled in Brooklyn and a few even lived in the same apartment complex. Growing up the extended family was HUGE and someone new was over every Sunday.

The next generation has become geographically spread out, I moved to the West Coast, a few of my cousins are in college out of state.. about half of this generation is likely to build their family outside of the NYC metro area, my children's generation is likely to split off from wherever I settle as well.

This is an unfortunate cost of the "American dream", my parents, aunts and uncles didn't have great paying jobs but they were close to family.. for the cost of a higher salary many of us make decisions that make communication with those we love difficult. Yesterday was my brother's 30th birthday but because of the time difference and work schedules we did not speak on the phone, only through text.

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