Momentum is building to explore Venus • Hacker News Board

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#31

Post by stcredzero » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:26 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #7

thebooktocome wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we've failed to terraform much closer, less inhospitable environments, and the risks for getting it wrong are very high.

Wait, what are the risks? It's not like you're going to make Venus _more_ inhospitable than it already is. Worst case scenario is we'd lose some valuable scientific information about Venus in its natural state.

Wait, what are the risks? It's not like you're going to make Venus _more_ inhospitable than it already is.

To some weird soul out there on the Internet, this sounds like a challenge.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#32

Post by Isamu » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

Stay tuned for the Venus mechanical maker challenge:

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/events/2019/3/1/mechanical-make...

>With its sulfuric acid clouds, temperatures over 450°C, and 92 times the surface pressure of Earth, Venus is one of the most hostile planetary environments in the solar system. Prior missions have only survived hours! But an automaton (or clockwork mechanical robot) could solve this problem. By utilizing high-temperature alloys, the clockwork rover would survive for months, allowing it to collect and return valuable long-term science data from the surface of Venus.

>Challenge to be announced on July 8, 2019

Question: does NASA have a Venus environmental chamber? They must, right? How big is it?

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#33

Post by DennisP » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

albemuth wrote: post #14

empath75 wrote: post #12

So I had two thoughts while reading it: Is it possible that in the 3 billion years that it had liquid water, Venus evolved advanced life that managed to trigger runaway greenhouse warming? Secondly, is Venus’s atmosphere a worst case scenario for global warming here or is there something that would prevent it happening?

they would have just gone to Earth

Or just denied that it was a problem until it was too late to migrate to Earth before their civilization crashed.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#34

Post by mirimir » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #12

So I had two thoughts while reading it: Is it possible that in the 3 billion years that it had liquid water, Venus evolved advanced life that managed to trigger runaway greenhouse warming? Secondly, is Venus’s atmosphere a worst case scenario for global warming here or is there something that would prevent it happening?

I see no reason why intelligent life with high technology could not have developed on Venus. Say, several hundred million years ago. And perhaps they triggered runaway greenhouse warming, which vaporized the oceans. And so perhaps it was the loss of the oceans that ended plate tectonics, not the other way around.

I doubt that runaway greenhouse warming could get so extreme for Earth. I recall reading that solar input is enough lower here. Also, at million-year scales, I gather that high CO2 levels increase weathering, and drive carbonate deposition in the oceans.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#35

Post by Frenchgeek » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #29

I wonder why there isn't a balloon mission being studied. The upper atmosphere has temperature and pressure similar to Earth at sea level. Maybe the wind is a big problem? Or insertion from orbit?

Because then conspiracy theorists will understand a weather ballon can be an alien spacecraft too.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#36

Post by gubbrora » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:37 PM UTC

ianstallings wrote: post #22

hsnewman wrote: post #4

I've always wondered why we don't seed it with some biology that can eat the components of the Venusian atmosphere (ie: sulfuric acid, carbon dioxide) to make a more habitable planet over time.

There is debate within the scientific community about changing other planets in general. Not everyone is convinced that we should alter or terraform to suit our needs. Some related links: https://planetaryprotection.nasa.gov/intpolicy/ https://www.astrobio.net/mars/should-we-terraform/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_of_terraforming

This is like nimbyism on steroids. "No one build anything what if there is Rare Science in our backyards".

I mean yes I do kinda see your point, but priorities man. There are ridiculously large advantages to colonizing the universe and destroying a few samples is a low price.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#37

Post by LoSboccacc » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:39 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #20

hsnewman wrote: post #4

I've always wondered why we don't seed it with some biology that can eat the components of the Venusian atmosphere (ie: sulfuric acid, carbon dioxide) to make a more habitable planet over time.

We can’t even fix the climate where we live, with much easier solutions.

large part of it is sociopolitical: major populated and productive countries are locked by their social and economical structure into the need of perpetual growth to inject capital at the base as the top scoop up any floating wealth, stopping the growth without some for. of wealth redistribution would cause massive instability and with the margin of today production the first two to introduce climate control will be eaten (economically speaking) by the third one.

on the other hand we could likely today engineer algae or fungi to fix carbon into cellulose but you're going to need massive space for their growth and some place for their disposal, unless you can make some sort of bioplastic out of it, because burning them would defeat the purpose, and I bet once you put the number in the unbelievable scale needed for the project would scare the bejesus out of the very same ambientalists types that are currently most vocal about saving the world but abhor nuclear

anyway I think the real issue NASA has about bioengineering are ethical, and Venus is in the same protection category as Venus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_protection

you can draw parallels between the development of cities as Rome, London, Chicago and Los Angeles substituting environmental protection with historical buildings protections. it's important to preserve the best and most relevant landmarks of course but too much and it becomes a real drag.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#38

Post by WaxProlix » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:40 PM UTC

albemuth wrote: post #14

empath75 wrote: post #12

So I had two thoughts while reading it: Is it possible that in the 3 billion years that it had liquid water, Venus evolved advanced life that managed to trigger runaway greenhouse warming? Secondly, is Venus’s atmosphere a worst case scenario for global warming here or is there something that would prevent it happening?

they would have just gone to Earth

Maybe they did :hmm:

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#39

Post by thebooktocome » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:44 PM UTC

theandrewbailey wrote: post #26

thebooktocome wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we've failed to terraform much closer, less inhospitable environments, and the risks for getting it wrong are very high.

Which environments are you referring to? Venus is the closest planet to Earth. The Moon is the only significant body between the two. And by 'we've failed to terraform', did you mean 'we haven't tried yet'?

As far as I'm aware, nobody's succeeded in turning deserts into farm land on a large scale. Various parties keep trying but the water, fertilizer, and maintenance costs are astronomical.

Re: Momentum is building to explore Venus

#40

Post by CodiePetersen » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

nickserv wrote: post #29

I wonder why there isn't a balloon mission being studied. The upper atmosphere has temperature and pressure similar to Earth at sea level. Maybe the wind is a big problem? Or insertion from orbit?

I think upper atmosphere study would be great. There are some colony designs that suggest an oxygen filled colony would float at earth pressure. And with the sulfuric acid and co2 you have everything you need to make water air and fuel. Not to mention protection from asteroids and deadly rays. It would be a challenge but all of the planets and other bodies present their own challenges.