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Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

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Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might as well deprive them of normal social interactions and different opinions while you're at it. Personally, I'm glad my country does not allow such nonsense and hubris. Of course, it's a straw man, you can care about your children's education in other ways, and outside of school, too.

Many homeschooling programs have a mandatory requirement that includes time spent with other kids in a sort of classroom setting; it's just that this doesn't happen every day, unlike a regular school. It's not "hubris" to homeschool when your school system is a dumpster fire. We've spent decades trying to improve the schools in some areas, only to see continued decline and often blatant political sabotage that seems…

> when your school system is a dumpster fire

let's assume this represents a person's view. then surely, most of society is fucked, and the logical solution is to move to a different country that doesn't have these issues? or do you also see it as a zero-sum game? as in, if society is dumber and my kids are smarter, that's a win? that doesn't ring true in my experience, given that humans are social creatures. or are you simply banking on that they'll be enough people out there and enough separation via social circles to weed out the suckers who had to run this dumpster fire gauntlet?

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#42
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the appeal of that, but I think most of us think that the school experience is necessary for proper socialization of the kids. Personally I think that most schools are akin to prisons in many ways, but they were also the place where I forged some lifelong friendships.

I agree on the prison characterization (in general, not in all cases). The tradeoff is that you have to be more proactive at socialization but there are plenty of opportunities to socialize through extra-curricular activities, co-ops, meeting up with other families during the day, etc. Nothing's perfect. That's the whole point of having options and the freedom to choose what works for you.

[deleted]

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#43

"The local Brazosport Independent School District had recently hired a company called Social Sentinel to monitor public posts from all users, including adults, on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media platforms. The company's algorithms flagged Lafrenais's tweet as a potential threat. Automated alerts were sent to the district's superintendent, chief of police, director of student services, and director of guidan…

Google Apps for Education says hi.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It varies depending on circumstances, of course, but the vast majority of homeschooled kids I've met are very well socialized, capable of reasoned debate, and quite well-rounded in their outlook on life. By contrast, in American public schools at least, I'm seeing a serious trend toward unhealthy social interactions, cyber bullying, teachers who only have time for testing, and more. If your country doesn't allow it,…

> I'm seeing a serious trend toward unhealthy social interactions, cyber bullying Admittedly the "cyber" part is relatively new, but that's called being a teenager. I'd rather my kids have this learning experience for the future. Me having to help them through it is simply part of being a parent. Especially if it's difficult, there's a learning experience in that. > If your country doesn't allow it, you may not have…

That sure is a lot of assumptions and accusations.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many homeschooling programs have a mandatory requirement that includes time spent with other kids in a sort of classroom setting; it's just that this doesn't happen every day, unlike a regular school. It's not "hubris" to homeschool when your school system is a dumpster fire. We've spent decades trying to improve the schools in some areas, only to see continued decline and often blatant political sabotage that seems…

> when your school system is a dumpster fire let's assume this represents a person's view. then surely, most of society is fucked, and the logical solution is to move to a different country that doesn't have these issues? or do you also see it as a zero-sum game? as in, if society is dumber and my kids are smarter, that's a win? that doesn't ring true in my experience, given that humans are social creatures. or are y…

> the logical solution is to move to a different country that doesn't have these issues

You ignored the second part of my statement: many people don't have the means or skills needed to move to another city, let alone another country, or they are bound to the local area due to caring for an aging parent, etc.

If you are trapped in a difficult situation but your kids have a chance to break free, wouldn't you try to help them take advantage of that opportunity? I think most people would put their own children first, frankly. Not that sending them to a terrible school would help anyone!

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#46
post #35

This is nasty, but the unpleasant truth is that these schools are just rationally responding to public pressure and doing CYA. Every time there's a school shooter, the first thing the parents and media do is dig through his angry Facebook posts and go, "Look at all these red flags! Why wasn't anything done?". Well, now the schools are doing something. It's not the right thing to do, and it's not going to fix anything…

Wouldn't increased monitoring also increase their liability when something does go terribly wrong?

My first thought exactly. If the school "knew" about it and dismissed the alerts as a false positive I would have to imagine that opens them up to far greater liability than simply not knowing about the behavior in the first place.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not dense. These people consider that kind of stuff perfectly acceptable because they have a world view in which living in totalitarian society is acceptable. Their world view simply does not align with yours or mine. They simply do not consider the use these kind of systems to be fundamentally incompatible with free society the way you or I do.

> These people consider that kind of stuff perfectly acceptable because they have a world view in which living in totalitarian society is acceptable. Except they don't. The moment the totalitarian society started to demand conformance to something they don't like, you can be sure they would object.

And said state will take off its hat, apologize and disappear? C'mon mate...

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#49
post #21

To fight this, I don't think we should be talking about privacy or rights. That's all very important, but society is already fairly desensitized to that language, and the pro-surveillance side can literally point to the dead bodies of real children. Instead, we should be talking about how deleterious it is to the character development of our children. Among other problems, they are being demanded to conform to an inc…

That won't work either though.

I can hear it now:

"Well, if by 'increasingly narrow range of acceptable behavior' you mean 'not molesting the girls and refraining from committing school shootings' then maybe they should have systems like this!"

You need to have some arguments not centered around the idea of behavior. Because that idea will be thrown back at you almost immediately. Behavior is exactly what these people will say they are trying to change.

Re: Schools Are Deploying Digital Surveillance Systems

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its popular to create false dichotomies. Like this one. How about: monitor them sometimes and train them into good behavior patterns, so as to create a population of civil citizens You can have zero tolerance for bullying and harassment, without 100 surveillance. Like any civil society.

> You can have zero tolerance for bullying and harassment, without 100 surveillance You absolutely, positively, cannot have that. Bullying is an all day every day thing with children. Especially boys. The only way you prevent it all the time is to never leave boys alone in a group with no monitoring or supervision. Edit: If you are downvoting or disagreeing with this, you are part of the absurdly unreasonable expecta…

>Bullying is an all day every day thing with children. Especially boys...

I don't think you've ever been responsible for a group of adolescent girls. Far better than boys, at pretty much every aspect of bullying.

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