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macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
381–390 of 450 posts
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Windows Subsystem for Linux fixes a lot of these problems, you can even point VS Code at Ubuntu now on Windows and avoid CMD entirely.
I was someone who installed the first beta of Windows that included this, just to try it out for Rails. It had LOTS of problems. I filed bugs. I kept trying over the next couple of versions, and finally gave up. I tried it again a few months ago, and, again, ran into a show-stopping problem of some sort, and gave up again. Are you saying that you use it "in anger" for serious development, and have no issues? People c…
I've done most of my Linux development on WSL for the last year. It stuggles sometimes under certain types of heavy IO load, and there are ocsssional compatibility issues, but overall it's been impressively reliable and convenient.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
A hypervisor is not exactly a container. Definitely not in the Linux sense. It may be more secure, but it is also slower. Further, there's no decent solution for shipping a macOS container image to run in a VM. Linux, yes, Mac, no. Finally, good luck getting your virtualized macOS app to interact reasonably with your main OS (no drag and drop, no OpenGL, etc.). I would rather chroot.
How much slower?
Our build time on Linux container is 8 minutes, but it's a few hours on macOS using docker containers. I haven't dug into it but the hypervisor seems to be single threading the normally multicore compile.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#384Civ IV will never work again. RIP.
It uses the system python? I doubt it.
It absolutely does and macOS has already broken it several times. This I guess to some extent demonstrates the folly of having one. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/how-to-get-civ4-bts-w...
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you’re overthinking this. The vast majority of Ruby/Python programmers have been installing their own copies themselves, because Apple was pretty slow in updating them (Ruby is usually a few minor releases behind, Python is still 2.7 IIRC). People will just keep doing that, and nothing will change. They may or may not be moving off Unix, but this isn’t evidence of that.
Right, I think most developers know that it's a bad idea to mess with the old, unmaintained system versions of Python, Ruby, or Perl. Almost everyone I know uses Homebrew to install the bleeding edge versions separately, and that will save you a world of pain. For Python folks, just install pyenv/pipenv and you can easily maintain `system` (Python), Python2.7x, Python3.7.3, &c as separate environments. For Ruby peopl…
Or anaconda!
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Windows Subsystem for Linux fixes a lot of these problems, you can even point VS Code at Ubuntu now on Windows and avoid CMD entirely.
I was someone who installed the first beta of Windows that included this, just to try it out for Rails. It had LOTS of problems. I filed bugs. I kept trying over the next couple of versions, and finally gave up. I tried it again a few months ago, and, again, ran into a show-stopping problem of some sort, and gave up again. Are you saying that you use it "in anger" for serious development, and have no issues? People c…
I use WSL (without anger) for serious development, for about two years now and have had almost no issues.
Running 'Pengwin' (Debian) Linux via WSL, RVM using Ruby 2.4.1 + Rails 5.1.7 and Ruby 2.6.2 + Rails 6.0.0.beta3
Today, everything works just as expected, right out of the box with no effort. This includes ActiveRecord (to SQLite, MariaDB, and PostgreSQL), including Node.js / Asset Pipeline, Prawn PDF and ImageMagick integrations, uploads to AWS, email integrations, capistrano-based deployments, Heroku Gem + integration, and so on.
It's gotten to the point where we spend more time helping OSX folks figure out occasional Homebrew weirdness, than we do helping Windows folks with WSL. Especially since WSL people can almost always just re-use any Ubuntu instructions verbatim.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#387It's interesting to me that this is happening in the same month that Microsoft made installing modern Python as easy as typing Python and then clicking "install". One more piece of evidence that Microsoft cares about developers more than Apple does.
> It's interesting to me that this is happening in the same month that Microsoft made installing modern Python as easy as typing Python and then clicking "install". You still need admin rights and an internet setup. Linux is still king.
On what system can you install python without Internet access?
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
That just proves you live in a bubble :) I never got into RoR because it sucked so much on windows and every single tutorial was OSX focused. I just sticked to alternatives that worked.
So which companies are actually doing RoR development on Windows? Do they also deploy to Windows Server (?) in production? I guess I live in multiple bubbles because I’ve worked for tech companies in several different major metros and I’ve never heard of this as a mainstream thing.
It is not like that. My point is that there's a barrier to entry to RoR that you should own a Mac. I gave up because my home setup is Windows based and I won't change it for the sake of a hyped framework or tool.
But none of this is surprising considering where RoR is coming from, I'm not sad or upset about it either :)
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree overall, but I do think it's a little sad that you can no longer open a Terminal and start writing Python. I think this legitimately matters in terms of increasing overall tech and programming literacy. Mind, there's still a command line and shell built-in, which I consider far more important.
Its not like the rest of the terminal is friendly to newbies. An online ‘jsfiddle’ like environment suitable for newbies (with a bit of inline syntax hints without turning into a full IDE) would be more useful to get people to start playing with programming
Separately from including python, I've always thought it would be nice if TextEdit had some built-in syntax highlighting, that activated automatically for the right file extensions.
I'm generally against bloating simple apps, but you'd never see this unless you opened a .py file (or .sh, .rb, etc), and if you open a .py file, you probably want syntax highlighting.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
Learning how to install and configure development environments is an important skill in general, but I'm not convinced having those skills as a prerequisite for exploring programming as a newbie is at all valuable.
It is valuable if they start out with python 3 instead of python 2.
I'd say that depends on what kind of newbie we're talking about.