macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

Post by wtallis » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:33 AM UTC

jzl wrote: post #220

jaabe wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understood it, scripting languages will still be available to the user, they just won’t have ancient versions preinstalled. Of course that also means you can’t rely on them being installed at all as a developer. Which means you should start bundling the stuff you need to run your app, and, they’d like you not to use the same ancient batteries as they have previously made available, because, well they are ancient…

Ok, I guess it's worded vaguely enough to allow for the possibility of optional installation ("by default"), even though they don't outright promise that they'll offer a way to install it. (I interpreted it in the same way as "macOS doesn't include Photoshop by default".) Having it come from the app store doesn't seem totally appropriate since it would need to do more than dump a bundle into /Applications, like makin…

Post by jjgreen » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:37 AM UTC

JohnBooty wrote: post #104

ken wrote: post #76

Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…

They've got enough market clout now that people will port Ruby/Python/Perl to a non-Unix macOS, just as they port them to Microsoft Windows. Ruby on Windows is a nightmare. To be specific, Ruby itself (the core language and core libraries) are pretty good on Windows. Great choice for a scripting language, or whatever else you want to do. But libraries like ActiveRecord, Rails and their myriad dependencies are very ve…

Post by megous » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:47 AM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #329

ken wrote: post #76

Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…

>> (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal system, but it is not too bad. The essential features of Unix seem to be good ones, and I think I can fill in what Unix lacks without spoiling them. And a system compatible with Unix would be convenient for many other people to adopt.") I have a historical question and I wonder if anyone in this thread has the answer: why did RMS (and, presumably, by then his cycle) had…

Post by NoOn3 » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 10:49 AM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #329

ken wrote: post #76

Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…

>> (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal system, but it is not too bad. The essential features of Unix seem to be good ones, and I think I can fill in what Unix lacks without spoiling them. And a system compatible with Unix would be convenient for many other people to adopt.") I have a historical question and I wonder if anyone in this thread has the answer: why did RMS (and, presumably, by then his cycle) had…

Post by skocznymroczny » Thu, Jun 06, 2019, 11:04 AM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #207

photojosh wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good grief. What's wrong with going to www.python.org/downloads/ and clicking the big button at the top that says "Download the latest version for Mac OS X"? If you can't even download an installer and run it, then yeah, maybe not quite ready for programming either. Please forgive my snark, but this would be exactly my thought process as a reasonably competent computer user who wanted to learn Python.

He’s right though. When I was six years old, learning to program involved turning on the computer and typing 10 print “hello” run That’s what I want for my kids. And there’s nothing even remotely like it in today’s world.