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How does Apple privately find offline devices?

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

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Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#141

Post by xbmcuser »

eitland wrote: post #124
inetknght wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, if the information is aggregated to a final answer, why is the data then kept? What if the _wrong people_ get ahold of the more sensitive information _because_ the data was kept beyond its useful life?

In their defense: it is perfectly fine with me to keep my location data, so I can download it later and do cool and/or useful things with it as long as - it is opt in, - it can be deleted by me - is not given to anyone else For all my trashing of Google lately (check my comment history) I actually expect and belive them to defend my raw data in a way that few others are able to. It all boils down to incentives: - as…

This is the main reason I trust Google with my data compared to other companies the data they have on me is their biggest competitive advantage no way they are selling it to anyone.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#142

Post by Xelbair »

HALtheWise wrote: post #89
Phlarp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they do and have internally assessed that it would be too creepy to provide to users, but are happily using it to better target advertising.

Or they have decided that it's too creepy to use at all, so they don't use it for targeted advertising. Seriously, why does everyone assume that companies are evilly cackling in volcano lairs? They know that violating user trust is really expensive and a bad idea. By the way, I'm pretty sure I've seen that Google's advertising targeting is only allowed to use "neighborhood level" location, which is designed to be coa…

They are a business.

Their only goal is the make money - by definition. It is not that people assume that they are evil - just that they will follow on things that will earn them money.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#143

Post by yoz-y »

president wrote: post #92
kccqzy wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thieves already know that stolen iPhones are usually not operable. Even with the old Find My iPhone, even after the device has been wiped, only the original owner can activate it again. So these stolen phones are usually broken down, with parts sold separately.

They are getting smarter. A family member had their phone stolen and Find My iPhone reported that the phone was off for months and so she gave up searching. One day, she got a text on her new phone saying "Find my iPhone has found your phone, click here to login to Find my iPhone". It turned out to be a phishing page for her AppleID credentials. She fell for it and I'm assuming the thieves were able to finally get in…

My wife's phone has been the same. I have left a "lost" message on it with my number just in case, that's probably where they have got it from.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#144

Post by toyg »

walterbell wrote: post #61
m463 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

recent apple phones have NFC, which cannot be disabled.

Can NFC be used by iOS applications, e.g. SSH authentication via smartcard, where the private key never leaves the card?

Not at the moment, but one element suggesting it will be in iOS 13 is that the UK Home Office announced their app for validating European passports (which uses NFC but only on Android at the moment) will be able to work on Apple devices at the end of this year - basically when iOS 13 will be released.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#145

Post by amelius »

Xelbair wrote: post #142
HALtheWise wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they have decided that it's too creepy to use at all, so they don't use it for targeted advertising. Seriously, why does everyone assume that companies are evilly cackling in volcano lairs? They know that violating user trust is really expensive and a bad idea. By the way, I'm pretty sure I've seen that Google's advertising targeting is only allowed to use "neighborhood level" location, which is designed to be coa…

They are a business. Their only goal is the make money - by definition. It is not that people assume that they are evil - just that they will follow on things that will earn them money.

Uhm, yeah but an evil person also follows on things that benefit them. Does this somehow make this person ok?

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#146

Post by raxxorrax »

RosanaAnaDana wrote: post #16

Total aside, but kinda relevant. I lost my phone like a dufus about a two weeks ago. Battery died and I had no idea where it was. When I pulled the my google location history, it was too coarse to tell me anything other than 'at your house'. However, I was able to pull the raw data from google and post process it by time stamp into a series of rasters that were fine enough for me to see that the phone was definitely…

Probably slower than just keep searching. But way cooler.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#147

Post by Veen »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #137
m463 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed in my lifetime that a number of crimes have become ad-hoc decriminalized. Smaller crimes like bicycle theft or small electronics are basically "who cares" to the police. Many police departments don't even do bicycle registrations anymore. Even car theft has sort of fallen to insurance companies to take care of. A lot of people just want a police report to turn in to insurance so they can get a new car. I…

I'm sure they prefer to focus on bigger cases - why go with a single bike theft if they can investigate an organized bike theft and laundering organization? Why bother with a single phone theft if they find a warehouse full of stolen merchandise? But yeah, that does mean a lot of petty crime goes unpunished. Stealing a bike here has become normalized - as in, "my bike got stolen, I need to get home so I'll just steal…

> Why bother with a single phone theft if they find a warehouse full of stolen merchandise?

Because many more people are affected by minor crime than major crime. In the UK, where the police's funding has been reduced significantly, it's next to impossible to get them to do anything for burglary and minor thefts (although they're quite reactive if you say something impolitic on Twitter).

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#148

Post by jlgaddis »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #104
zed88 wrote: post #101

Well...a bit off topic but kind of relevant. My car got broken into and my iPad nicked. I was able to locate that, however, the cops here in NZ were really unhelpful. They said the GPS location wouldn't be sufficient for a search warrant as they have had many cases of false positives. I said I would give the ssid and ip address of their wifi network, even then they wouldn't agree for a raid. It was only when the thie…

Legally could you go get it, and in the resulting skirmish perhaps attract the attention of the police? Is trespassing to retrieve stolen property still trespassing?

Ask O.J. Simpson.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#149

Post by hugi »

raxxorrax wrote: post #146
RosanaAnaDana wrote: post #16

Total aside, but kinda relevant. I lost my phone like a dufus about a two weeks ago. Battery died and I had no idea where it was. When I pulled the my google location history, it was too coarse to tell me anything other than 'at your house'. However, I was able to pull the raw data from google and post process it by time stamp into a series of rasters that were fine enough for me to see that the phone was definitely…

Probably slower than just keep searching. But way cooler.

Plot twist: That's actually the queen and she lost the phone in Windsor Palace.

Re: How does Apple privately find offline devices?

#150

Post by close04 »

LordDragonfang wrote: post #132
Phlarp wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because time and time again it is proven that "these companies" (Facebook and Google) will use any signal they can get their hands on to make money? I'm pretty sure they've both been caught with their hands in the cookie jar doing things they swore they never would.

Genuinely curious, could you provide an example of Google "doing things they swore they never would" with consumer data? Because I know they do plenty of things with data that people think are creepy, but I don't recall ever seeing a story about them doing things they swore they wouldn't (besides the nebulous "don't be evil") or even lying about what they were actually doing with consumer data. If it's happened time…

Random example: when Chrome logged you in the browser without any warning, because you logged in to Gmail it also swiftly synced your local data (like browsing history) to your Google profile. That’s akin to stealing your data and I think at some point they must have promised not to do it...
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