Most of my Python/Ruby stuff requires additional packages to be installed and so would need to be bundled anyway if I wanted it to be easily transferred to a vanilla machine so I don’t see what the big deal is. I got into programming through wanting to automate something really boring with AppleScript and I got into Ruby (wow that was amazing compared to AppleScript) through wanting to program sketch-up which has a bundled interpreter. When I wanted to use Ruby for other cool stuff, the Ruby website recommended I installed my own so it didn’t mess with the system install. I doubt there are very many people who get into programming by accidentally typing Ruby at the command prompt. Most will come to it via a the getting started page for the language they are interested in or because it’s bundled with the software they use for their job.
macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
281–290 of 450 posts
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#282Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…
I don't see this anti-Unix stance at all in what Apple is doing here. The "P"-languages that shall not be named were never part of Unix/POSIX, and arguably violate Unix principles in that they want to establish a language-centric ecosystem when the Unix userland is about small, language-agnostic programs working together.
>and arguably violate Unix principles in that they want to establish a language-centric ecosystem when the Unix userland is about small, language-agnostic programs working together.
That was never a real consideration where distros/vendors are concerned (UNIX or Linux). Just a nice-to-have goal for the command line userland (and even that, more back in the day).
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
One good thing about programming on Mac is the UNIX environment which basically works just like on Linux. Makes it great for finding questions/solutions that work (vs on Windows for example). Do you see that changing as macOS gets away from UNIX? That would probably be a bad hit on apple if Linux becomes then the de facto programming OS when Apple drops UNIX
What makes you think Apple has any plans to move away from Unix?
The alarmist first comment in this very thread...
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
I reject the persistent meme that iTerm2 is somehow essential. Apple do a great job with the builtin Terminal.app
Just that the prompt automatically goes on a new line makes iTerm2 so nice though. As well as the built in timing of commands, jump to previous prompt, double click selects matching parentheses, etc. it's those little details.
>Just that the prompt automatically goes on a new line makes iTerm2 so nice though.
Not sure what you mean here, but I don't think that's something you don't get, or can't get, on Terminal.app. In fact, that's the default...
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#285Not surprising at all. It's become clear that what they've been doing with iOS all along is bootstrapping a new operating system. They started with Unix, not because Unix was optimal for what they wanted to do, but it's what they had and it worked well enough. Copland and Taligent and the rest failed because of Second-System Effect, which Apple was smart enough to avoid. (As RMS wrote in 1983, "Unix is not my ideal s…
So is google with chrome os first and then with fuchsia
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure why you are getting downvoted. I'd not like it if Apple will opinion-ate and make any package manager a default. Package managers are for software developers. They are comfortable installing them on their own.
I expect he’s getting downvoted because he doesn’t offer any reasoning (or substance at all) along with his opinion.
The reasoning was in the question itself. Sometimes a prompt answer is a better one.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just that the prompt automatically goes on a new line makes iTerm2 so nice though. As well as the built in timing of commands, jump to previous prompt, double click selects matching parentheses, etc. it's those little details.
> Just that the prompt automatically goes on a new line makes iTerm2 so nice though. Not sure what you mean here, but I don't think that's something you don't get, or can't get, on Terminal.app. In fact, that's the default...
If you have a command that doesn't print a new line, the prompt normally ends up on the same line as the output of the last command. iTerm can "fix" this.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which installs itself based on the system Ruby. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.
They just pack a statically compiled Ruby interpreter with Homebrew. Not very complex or novel. Disadvantage: install becomes more bloated (larger size).
Sure, it’s not a hard engineering challenge. However, installation instructions right now are as simple as “run this one-liner on your terminal”. That’ll have to materially change.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#289I think this is great, but at the same time, auto-installing homebrew ought to be an option (perhaps enabled by default) when installing the “XCode command line tools”. Better yet, offer a “developer setup” app that sets up the command line tools, homebrew, iTerm2, updated bash/zsh, and more. Apple would do best to pave the cow paths developers have already worn into macOS, especially when it comes to command line ut…
I think the second you start auto-favouring one particular tool you're in trouble. Why iTerm2? Why not Alacritty? iTerm2 is more popular now, but 5 years down the line when someone else has come up with a iTerm2 replacement how is Apple meant to decide to switch? Where does Apple draw the line on which tools to add and which to leave out? It sounds like what you're really asking for is something like Ninite for mac,…
> I think the second you start auto-favouring one particular tool you're in trouble. Why iTerm2? Why not Alacritty?
Because iTerm2 is an excellent Mac app? I don't understand your aversion to favoring one tool over another: macOS itself is a tool that I prefer to use over Linux because it's nicer, just as iTerm2 is nicer than Alacritty.
Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids You should check out what they’ve been doing for years with Swift Playgrounds on the iPad
But that's teaching a new generation of coders a set of tools designed only for Apple. Ruby (Python etc) are open and easily available on other platforms, Swift may be in the future but it isn't now.
Once you’ve learned one programming language, it’s not hard to learn a second. It’s not terribly important what you’re first language is, and Swift isn’t a bad starting point anyway.