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macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

developer.apple.com

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Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#201

Post by nicky0 »

valleyjo wrote: post #111
userbinator wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s part of why companies like Apple and Microsoft care so much about backwards compat Compared to (former) Microsoft, I don't think Apple spends anywhere near the amount of effort MS does on backwards compatibility. You can create a single .exe that will work on any Windows starting from Windows 95 - nearly 25 years. In that timespan, Apple changed CPU architectures twice, and their OS architecture once. If you're…

Completely true. Apple only cares about back-compact down to a few older major versions. So often the big projects (like modern apps, Windows 10 S, etc) Microsoft does fail or struggle to gain traction IMO because of the blessing and curse of their back-compat requirements.

I think Apple has the right formula. The do put the effort in to maintain back compat to a certain point, but they also aggressively deprecate and remove within a few years of the arrival of a replacement technology. So you get the benefit of things not suddenly breaking, with the benefit of the whole ecoystem moving forwards. If that means old unmaintained software is left behind, then so be it. The right balance I think.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#202

Post by reikonomusha »

jarcane wrote: post #198
TimTheTinker wrote: post #192

I think this is great, but at the same time, auto-installing homebrew ought to be an option (perhaps enabled by default) when installing the “XCode command line tools”. Better yet, offer a “developer setup” app that sets up the command line tools, homebrew, iTerm2, updated bash/zsh, and more. Apple would do best to pave the cow paths developers have already worn into macOS, especially when it comes to command line ut…

Homebrew is not the only package provider for MacOS.

Would Apple be in the wrong simply being opinionated about using Homebrew?

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#203

Post by crazysim »

indigo747 wrote: post #177
Gaelan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re overthinking this. The vast majority of Ruby/Python programmers have been installing their own copies themselves, because Apple was pretty slow in updating them (Ruby is usually a few minor releases behind, Python is still 2.7 IIRC). People will just keep doing that, and nothing will change. They may or may not be moving off Unix, but this isn’t evidence of that.

As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming. I don't think a bare Ruby interpreter is the best way to get into programming, but Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids. As a kid, its development tools were totally baffling, where Ruby was much easier to understand.

Swift Playground for macOS? One can hope!

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#204

Post by erik_seaberg »

benatkin wrote: post #74
Waterluvian wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python and pip just being there is a huge advantage for newbies. I really think that part of programming is constantly ignored because all the decision-makers are not newbies.

Not true. It's better for them to install it themselves so they know exactly what they're using, and so they type python for python 3 and not python3.

Always ask for python2 or python3. "#!/usr/bin/env python" probably won't ever be able to detect and run both, so no matter what you wanted there will always be systems on which you won't get it.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#206

Post by [deleted] »

indigo747 wrote: post #177
Gaelan wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re overthinking this. The vast majority of Ruby/Python programmers have been installing their own copies themselves, because Apple was pretty slow in updating them (Ruby is usually a few minor releases behind, Python is still 2.7 IIRC). People will just keep doing that, and nothing will change. They may or may not be moving off Unix, but this isn’t evidence of that.

As a counter-anecdote, the built in Ruby interpreter in Mac OS X Tiger was the way I learned to program and how I got interested in programming. I don't think a bare Ruby interpreter is the best way to get into programming, but Apple hasn't been great at encouraging programming among kids. As a kid, its development tools were totally baffling, where Ruby was much easier to understand.

[deleted]

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#207

Post by jasonkester »

photojosh wrote: post #152
SeanLuke wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that my kids will certainly love to hear that they have to learn Unix in order to learn a build system in order to try out Python. It's all part of the "learning process for newbies."

Good grief. What's wrong with going to www.python.org/downloads/ and clicking the big button at the top that says "Download the latest version for Mac OS X"? If you can't even download an installer and run it, then yeah, maybe not quite ready for programming either. Please forgive my snark, but this would be exactly my thought process as a reasonably competent computer user who wanted to learn Python.

He’s right though.

When I was six years old, learning to program involved turning on the computer and typing

  10 print “hello”
  run
That’s what I want for my kids. And there’s nothing even remotely like it in today’s world.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#208

Post by rovr138 »

azinman2 wrote: post #18
ihuman wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you read more into my question than what I meant. I was asking literally about the best way to install it was without a system level ruby. Once you have homebrew, you can install ruby; but what about before that? Download and install ruby from ruby-lang.org, install homebrew and a brewed ruby, then uninstall the one from ruby-lang.org?

I’m guessing home brew will end up creating a packaged installer than includes a home brew upgradable ruby

They already do.

The installer is the only thing that uses the system one. Could be ported to ZSH or Python 3.

Re: macOS deprecating scripting language runtimes, including Python, Ruby, and Perl

#210

Post by nailer »

paulcarroty wrote: post #194
AlfeG wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why? Yeah there were times with damn node-gym not compiling for whatever reason. But nowadays things run pretty smooth.

paths, compilation etc. Windows isn't main server platform, so people seems like just don't care.

You can use / on Windows in node perfectly, and Windows node now installs required devtools for native modules at the end of the process.

It's pretty easy these days.

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