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Languages of India

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Re: Languages of India

#191

Post by random314 »

kranner wrote: post #187
yumraj wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jaroor/zaroor is Urdu word. Hindi is निश्चित (nishchit). Just because zaroor is commonly used doesn't make it Hindi.

> Just because zaroor is commonly used doesn't make it Hindi. By this reasoning Urdu is the most widely spoken language of India. 'Nishchit' doesn't even by itself replace 'zaroor'. 'Nishchit' means certain or definite . To replace 'zaroor' ( certainly or definitely ) you would actually have to say 'nishchit roop se'. Hindi-speaking people absolutely use 'zaroor' and 'bilkul' instead of 'nishchit roop se' when they'r…

> By this reasoning Urdu is the most widely spoken language of India.

Exactly! Couldn't have worded it better.

Re: Languages of India

#192

Post by random314 »

yumraj wrote: post #190
lagolinguini wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say सफ़ेद, गरम, अख़बार, वक़्त, मुज्ररिम, इलज़ाम, ख़त, etc are not Hindi words? Would you rather say श्वेत, ऊष्म, समाचारपत्र, मुजरिम, आरोप, पत्र? Most people use them interchangeably.

Yes, they are Urdu words, not Hindi. Yes, they are more commonly used than the Hindi words you mentioned. For what it's worth, मुजरिम is also Urdu. Not sure about आरोप, but I have a feeling that it's also Urdu, though I could be wrong. Edit: read any Hindi newspaper these days, at least the online edition, and in fact you will find a lot of common Hindi/Urdu words being replaced with English words written in Devnagri…

What you have been basically arguing is that Urdu is India's most widely spoken language and Hindi is a niche minority language, definitely outside the top 20.

Re: Languages of India

#193

Post by hesarenu »

shripadk wrote: post #51
anuraj wrote: post #12

India's right wing government under Modi is trying to impose Hindi on Indians who belong to different ethnicity and speak diverse set of languages. A sure shot recipe for balkanization of a young nation.

> trying to impose Hindi on Indians That turned out to be a big hoax. This is the second time such a frenzy was created for no apparent reason. There is no such "imposition" done by the Centre. A proposal is in draft which makes third-language compulsory for students. That does not mean Hindi would be imposed. The student can choose whichever language s/he wants to learn. The third language thing is implemented in qu…

A language is means of communication very true. Let's hope North Indian at least now learn south indian languages and improve communication.

Re: Languages of India

#194

Post by Jagat »

School-Cotton wrote: post #86
Jagat wrote: post #7

It's amazing how most Indians believe that Hindi is the national language of India, when there's no such as a national language in India. There are two official languages for union government communication - Hindi and English. I've also noticed that a lot of non Indians find it funny that most Indians here in bay area companies communicate among themselves in heavily accented English instead of The Indian language.

> It's amazing how most Indians believe that Hindi is the national language of India I am not Indian, so please correct my outsider's perspective if it is wrong, but from what I have seen, this is mainly believed by North Indians, and often deeply resented by South Indians, who are more likely to view English as a common, neutral, pan-Indian lingua franca, and Hindi as too North-centric to be appropriate for that rol…

You'd be surprised how it's a common belief even in south India where hindi isn't spoken.

Re: Languages of India

#195

Post by dang »

shripadk wrote: post #133
sridca wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Indian identity was split right in the middle and was done on religious lines Religion is only one factor. People also derive their group identity along cultural, caste and social lines. This is not specific to India. Although religion is less emphasized in America, other factors (cultural, social, racial, economical, etc.) still continue play its role in forming the identity of its denizens. -- Response to below c…

Sigh! I can't believe someone will have such a big problem understanding such a simple thing. I have a feeling you are deliberately nitpicking my comments just to prove some non-existent point. I don't understand why you think I have no idea about what "identity" means. That is besides the point mate. I never spoke about "identity" by itself or the definition of "identity". I spoke about Indian identity being divided…

Here you crossed into breaking the site guidelines by becoming personally abrasive if not abusive. Please don't do that. "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Languages of India

#196

Post by KorematsuFred »

random314 wrote: post #134
KorematsuFred wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindi and Urdu, by any reasonable linguistic definition are not separate languages. For any non-Indian person reading this, please note that this statement is 100% false. I am an outsider to Hindi speaking and Urdu speaking region. I have no dog in any political fight here but I have studied Hindi all my academic life and can assuredly tell you this statement is utter rubbish. But this might not be a fault of OP. A…

You are 100% wrong. The Bollywood Hindi is actually the real Hindi. It's not a mix of 2 languages. It's just one language - Hindi. Just like Hollywood English is simply English. The Hindi that is taught in text books in India is an artificial Hindi constructed 100 years ago by replacing Hindi words of Persian origin with words rooted in Sanskrit. So far this artificial language has stayed inside text books. If you ac…

> constructed 100 years ago by replacing Hindi words of Persian origin with words rooted in Sanskrit

That is untrue I have a master degree in Hindi. Bollywood Hindi is not Hindi in any sense. For example it does not match to a Navbharat Times to typical classic of Hindi literature.

> Which part of India wouldn't you say > "Zara kitaab dena"

Essentially everywhere from railway signs to classrooms to essays and everywhere. Bollywood is heavily influenced by Urdu but in general Hindi speaking heartland of UP one would perfectly ignore the Urdu influence.

Re: Languages of India

#197

Post by hesarenu »

shripadk wrote: post #118
viewtransform wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right solution is to leave it to parents and students to decide what languages they want to study in and what languages they choose to learn. Hindi is gradually becoming universally understood all over the country precisely because it was not imposed on linguistic minorities. When people don't feel that their culture is threatened they are open to learning Hindi. Bollywood and television has done more to promote…

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you here. What you are saying isn't happening universally and I am a witness to it myself. I am from Karnataka (Kannadiga) and I can travel around Karnataka and speak in Hindi or English and I am not discriminated against. Heck people here speak Tamil as well to those Tamilians who do not know Kannada. However, I travelled to Trichy, Kumbakonam and Chennai and the atmosphere is…

Why do you expect South Indians to know hindi. Do you go to North and speak in Kannada.

Learn the local languages. Don't impose your language or try to speak in common tongue be it English.

Re: Languages of India

#198

Post by jvsg »

billfruit wrote: post #65

A bit strange that Sinhala is classified as Indo-European rather than as Dravidian, as one might think from geography.

The sinhalese people of Sri Lanka are Indo-European, not dravidian. IIRC they came from Modern day Bengal.

Re: Languages of India

#199

Post by yumraj »

random314 wrote: post #192
yumraj wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they are Urdu words, not Hindi. Yes, they are more commonly used than the Hindi words you mentioned. For what it's worth, मुजरिम is also Urdu. Not sure about आरोप, but I have a feeling that it's also Urdu, though I could be wrong. Edit: read any Hindi newspaper these days, at least the online edition, and in fact you will find a lot of common Hindi/Urdu words being replaced with English words written in Devnagri…

What you have been basically arguing is that Urdu is India's most widely spoken language and Hindi is a niche minority language, definitely outside the top 20.

It's not clear to me how that conclusion can be drawn simply my looking at a very small set of words, while completely ignoring all else that makes a language.

Moreover, there are hundreds of dialects of Hindi spoken in India, each with its own nuances and varying degrees of Urdu words.

In addition, there is no denying that Urdu and Hindi have some shared lineage.

Again will refer to the Wikipedia [0] for better coverage of this topic

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindi–Urdu_controversy

Re: Languages of India

#200

Post by amrx431 »

hesarenu wrote: post #193
shripadk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to impose Hindi on Indians That turned out to be a big hoax. This is the second time such a frenzy was created for no apparent reason. There is no such "imposition" done by the Centre. A proposal is in draft which makes third-language compulsory for students. That does not mean Hindi would be imposed. The student can choose whichever language s/he wants to learn. The third language thing is implemented in qu…

A language is means of communication very true. Let's hope North Indian at least now learn south indian languages and improve communication.

> North Indian at least now learn south indian languages and improve communication.

Am a North Indian living in Blore. You are right. The thing is there is no incentive to learn Kannada for me. At work everyone speaks English, outside of work too, English does it for me. I have never had the need to learn Kannada in Blore. I found its requirement when I went to Hampi and other than that in Blore itself I never felt handicapped for not being able to speak in Kannada. I know that its my fault, learning local language is always nice to experience local culture, but I have been lazy and English is slowly but certainly replacing all Indian languages.

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