YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#621

Post by HBKXNCUO » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 10:51 PM UTC

root_axis wrote: post #616

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>With any of the other hundreds of platforms that cater to political discussion. Which platforms in particular are you referring to? >So what? I'm not suggesting that YouTube isn't popular, I'm saying that just because its popular doesn't mean YouTube should be prohibited from curating it's own platform. I'm not saying that either. I'm saying it should be prohibited from curating its own platform because it's popular…

> Which platforms in particular are you referring to? HN, reddit, twitter, facebook, instagram, voat, snapchat, tumblr, livejournal, gab, vimeo, dailymotion, metacafe and many others. > because it's where a substantial part of the public political debate takes place. Define "substantial part". I would argue that it is not at all substantial and the evidence is on my side. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-vi…

>HN

Good joke. First of all, this site actively tries to ban political discussion. Second, it's tiny in comparison to YouTube.

>reddit

Maybe. Definitely far up there, and a good candidate for being regulated.

>twitter, facebook

Agreed, should be regulated like youtube.

>instagram

Very little political content from what I know, but I don't know much about it.

>voat

Ya, OK. Smaller than HN.

>tumblr, livejournal

Small compared to YouTube/Facebook/Twitter

>gab

Funny

>vimeo, dailymotion

YouTube Alexa rating: 2 Vimeo Alexa rating: 125 DailyMation Alexa rating: 133

>Define "substantial part".

90% of all views of some particular type of political media, e.g. videos produced by people not associated with corporate owned media outlets. So if YouTube serves 40% of those views, and Facebook serves 30%, and Twitter serves 20%, then regulate those three.

> I would argue that it is not at all substantial and the evidence is on my side.

You keep suggesting that the amount of non-political content on YouTube somehow reduces the effect of the political content on YouTube. What is your reasoning behind that bizarre suggestion?

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#622

Post by themagician » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

hackerbrother wrote: post #531

themagician wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those looking to be radicalized will look at this as an example of the conspiracy. Look at QAnon. Or look at things like Conservapedia: https://www.conservapedia.com/Paul_Manafort Go ahead and read that article on Paul Manafort. That's just one, mundane article—you could pick any. Understand that, true or false, it doesn't matter anymore—this is a narrative and a set of facts that around 100 million people in the Uni…

I don't know about your conclusion. There's a lot of people out there arguing that deplatforming works. I think it was considered to be effective in reducing Alex Jones' influence.

Alex Jones’s influence has only grown. He was just on Joe Rogan’s podcast a few weeks ago.

Deplatforming just removes it from the view of people who don’t want to see it anyway.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#623

Post by Nadya » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 10:54 PM UTC

fwip wrote: post #525

Nadya wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is patently untrue in some domains that could be life-impacting, particularly in healthcare/medicine where differences in gender matters for treatment. If a trans-man is given medicine in doses as a man, and not a woman, they have a much higher risk of overdosing because of differences in how the body metabolizes drugs for each gender [0] [1]. It isn't transphobic to identify them as a woman and give them the pr…

It's important for doctors to know your medical history, that's obviously true. Do you know how trans people on HRT respond to Ambien, as your first link brings up? I sure don't. Depends on why the drug works differently. If you're scared that you'll die because your doctor thinks you're cis, tell them you're trans. That doesn't mean you have to tell your doctor "I'm really a man, despite being a trans woman, and it'…

>If you're scared that you'll die because your doctor thinks you're cis, tell them you're trans.

I'm more scared that my doctor will know I'm trans but not give me proper treatment as a result of being scared of losing their career to backlash from the politically correct. It's a far more realistic fear than my doctor not knowing my gender and it isn't something that would be brought up because it is a taboo to ask someone their "real gender".

I'm happy to expand on this if necessary, but this fear of social backlash has already caused problems in other fields of work such as policing certain minority groups in the U.K. It isn't too large a stretch to see it impacting healthcare.

This is all a bit besides the point though. The point is there are many physiological differences between trans-women and women and that trying to conflate the two as being equal actively harms both groups. It's a social feel-good statement said by people who's identity is more important to them than reality and any of the negative externalities caused when adhering to their view of the world.

As far as I am concerned, letting trans-women compete in any physical sport against cis-women is harmful to women and the concept of women's sports. There are biological reasons many sports are segregated by gender. I don't care if this hurts any feelings because it's reality and it is harmful to people to ignore reality just to avoid hurting some feelings.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#624

Post by snowwrestler » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #452

fwip wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is what you meant, but that's what youtube is doing now. They've decided that these neo-Nazi videos are causing violence, so they've stepped in to remove those bad actors for the sake of everyone else.

> They've decided that these neo-Nazi videos are causing violence By this logic, shouldn't neo-Nazi rallies or protests be "causing violence" as well because they influence people to commit violent acts later the same way neo-Nazi videos influence people? Yet that is the very thing the officers in GP's comment are protecting.

The fundamental distinction is government vs private.

Police carry weapons that can kill, and have jails that can lock you up for a long time.

Youtube has none of those negative things. They have positive things: great technology and a huge audience. The worst they can do is deny you access to those.

In general, you're not owed an audience. The police won't bring you an audience for your protest, and Youtube won't bring you an audience for your videos unless they want to.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#625

Post by QualityReboot » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 10:58 PM UTC

bufferoverflow wrote: post #618

QualityReboot wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The distinction is supposed to be that "biological facts" no longer include gender. Gender is now fluid psychological term, not a biological one. In other words, you said "advantages of a man" instead of "advantages of a genetic male", which is now wrong. But apparently I'm incorrect in thinking that you're not supposed to discuss "trans women" as a group, which is still confusing to me.

Sure, gender is different from sex. The point stands. There are major biological differences between females and trans women. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's just a part of life. Pretending everyone is equal is just lying to yourself. But of course, people should be treated equally (in most cases).

True, but you're not supposed to say trans women have biological traits of men, because trans men are also a thing, and they're still "men".

So really, trans women have biological traits of genetic males, which is fine.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#626

Post by fwip » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

0815test wrote: post #594

fwip wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a trans woman, so I'm gonna go ahead and be gentle when I say that my understanding does not match yours. Some trans women are as you describe, preoccupied with passing and going stealth, especially for safety reasons. Many aren't. You can speculate on if the term is gonna go away, but right now it's the best adjective to describe trans people. It's not offensive or a slur, it's literally the community's chosen l…

The elephant in the room is that "passing" is often little more than wishful thinking, and people are starting to understand this. Ultimately, a shared focus on full transparency about being 'trans' or 'cis' is quite helpful at de-escalating hostile attitudes and discrimination about the matter - one could admit of rare exceptions, but by and large, anyone who feels like they must hide themselves for "safety reasons"…

Unfortunately, even a lot of places that are generally trans-supportive won't admit refugees fleeing anti-trans violence - or when they do, they're not treated much better than the place they left.

https://www.hrc.org/blog/the-precarious-position-of-transgen...

I'm not sure what your first comment is meant to imply, but I suspect you might be suffering from confirmation bias if you think that passing isn't realistic.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#627

Post by Whatarethese » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #480

r3bl wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8beSkkKJ_0 No comments, likes, dislikes, and no recommendations on the sidebar. It can still be viewed if you accept the risk, and can be found using the search bar or by scrolling through the channel.

Funny enough, it's available in the US, but not in many EU countries (I tried Italy, Spain and Belgium).

Its gone now.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#628

Post by BubRoss » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 11:02 PM UTC

bzbarsky wrote: post #613

heer4it wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assure you that if you were to set up a booth in a shopping mall and start screaming slurs and lecturing about how gays and blacks and Jews are undermining the foundations of the superior white civilization, you would very quickly be removed from the mall.

That seems probable, yes. What if you set up a booth in a shopping mall in the spring of 2016 in California or Massachusetts and gave away pro-Trump stickers? I assure you there are plenty of people out there in both states, many of them likely working on YouTube, who view that as equivalent to your hypothetical. I know a number of them personally. Trust me, I'm not a fan of the sort of rhetoric you describe. But I a…

Is YouTube calling simply supporting Trump an extreme view?

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#629

Post by BubRoss » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #389

dageshi wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a privately owned museum a "public square"? Or a sports stadium owned by a private company? Or a Cinema? Or a threatre? No, neither is youtube. It's a place the public visit not a piece of public infrastructure. Repeating "public square" over and over again does not make it so.

Youtube runs on the back of publicly-funded infrastructure and, as a natural monopoly in the space, it has a position of privilege that needs to be regulated. We need an Internet Bill of Rights to ensure free speech on any platform of this scale. Yes, that means speech you don't like; may I suggest not watching it?

Anyone can put video on the internet. How is YouTube a monopoly? It isn't a human right to have a certain number of people stumble on to your video through algorithm recommendations.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#630

Post by Madmallard » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

nyc_data_geek wrote: post #573

Madmallard wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't really have a chance at an audience without using the platform..

No one said you are entitled to one.

If Youtube deems your content inappropriate for whatever reason then they remove you. This is a problem when they control the channel for the vast majority of content. You can't apply the simple ideology to it anymore. It is its own government at this point.