“Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#91

Post by move-on-by » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

dole wrote: post #68

stcredzero wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is more proof that apps and games are just another form of media. There are the same issues and conundrums dealing with children's media, as there are for books and television. I wish there would appear a 2019 version of Children's Television Workshop which would produce wonderful media for the children of today. (Is it already happening in some form?)

Pretty much PBS Kids, "wonderful" being subjective in both directions, like anything.

PBS Kids includes 3rd party analytics

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#92

Post by penagwin » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

move-on-by wrote: post #34

So far the only kids apps I've used with my little one is 'Sesame Street' and 'PBS Kids Video'. He loves Elmo, and its very handy in the pediatrician's waiting room to have a distraction. I also run a PiHole, and to my displeasure, I've found both these apps use Google Analytics. PBS Kids Video goes a few steps further and uses Google AdWords as well as ScorecardResearch analytics. These publicly funded apps are siph…

I dislike tracking as much as anyone, but can you really fault them for using Google analytics? It's not like PBS choose to use them "to profit off the viewers".

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#93

Post by Retric » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

TheCapn wrote: post #71

kerng wrote: post #26

I totally agree with this! I built a game and naively added ads to it as it seemed a good way to monetize. The game started to be really liked, and had 300k+ downloads overall. Many kids started playing it also. Luckily I realized quickly that kids play on the devices of parents and so the ads they might see are at times super inappropriate! Then I removed all ads, I'd rather make less money but have people play and…

Do you morally disagree with advertising/tracking monetization as a whole or just those particularly geared towards vulnerable populations? (children in your instance) I have my professional job developing software solutions for clients on a contractual base, but for a period after I graduated university I dabbled in mobile development and made the decision during that time that I'd never bloat my crappy apps with ad…

Personally it depends on the product. I find advertising specific prescription drugs abhorrent to anyone.

However, I think it’s completely reasonable to say talk to your doctor about ED or whatever. If there is only one treatment they seem similar, but when several options exist people should not be pushing for a specific drug based on an ad campaign.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#94

Post by kristianc » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

move-on-by wrote: post #14

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Here is the whole section > 1.3 Kids Category > The Kids Category is a great way for people to easily find apps that are designed for children. If you want to participate in the Kids Category, you should focus on creating a great experience specifically for younger users. These apps must not include links out of the app, purchasing opportunities, or other distractions to kids unless reserved for a designated area beh…

> Keep in mind that once customers expect your app to follow the Kids Category requirements, it will need to continue to meet these guidelines in subsequent updates, even if you decide to deselect the category. I love this. You can't just follow kids guidelines to build up your user-base and then drop it in favor of ads and analytics. Once you follow it, you have to continue to follow it.

> I love this. You can't just follow kids guidelines to build up your user-base and then drop it in favor of ads and analytics. Once you follow it, you have to continue to follow it.

Me too. It shows that Apple gives serious thought to this kind of stuff before they do it, and it comes from a philosophical position rather than what is expedient (or a Strategy Credit as Thompson might call it)

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#95

Post by sdegutis » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

TheCapn wrote: post #71

kerng wrote: post #26

I totally agree with this! I built a game and naively added ads to it as it seemed a good way to monetize. The game started to be really liked, and had 300k+ downloads overall. Many kids started playing it also. Luckily I realized quickly that kids play on the devices of parents and so the ads they might see are at times super inappropriate! Then I removed all ads, I'd rather make less money but have people play and…

Do you morally disagree with advertising/tracking monetization as a whole or just those particularly geared towards vulnerable populations? (children in your instance) I have my professional job developing software solutions for clients on a contractual base, but for a period after I graduated university I dabbled in mobile development and made the decision during that time that I'd never bloat my crappy apps with ad…

Not OP but I've had some thoughts on ads for a while that I've never shared:

1. Ads ruins user experience. This is pretty much an objective fact. People can and do adapt, but it's moving away from the ideal.

2. Ads often manipulates the user (emotionally, psychologically) to get clicks, which is just downright unethical.

3. Often unethical things are advertised, things that shouldn't even be on the market. These are usually rolled into an ad network, and ad embedders don't get a say in what's shown or not.

3. If we removed 99.99% (or maybe 100%) of all ads, I can't imagine that people will have a harder time purchasing what they need, when they need it.

Considering only points #1 and #4, there seems to be no harm in supporting ads in any way.

But #2 and #3 make it seem, to me at least, unethical to even work for a company whose business relies on ads.

I know a man who turned down a job opportunity discussion from Facebook this week for this exact reason, and I think that's noble, especially considering he's very poor and could use the raise.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#96

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

brownbat wrote: post #55

If you charge for listing and take 30% for sales, people are going to try some aggressive revenue techniques. One of the biggest unsolved problems for users is how to get the security of a walled garden while still encouraging open development, the sort of little experiments that become free simple QoL apps or toy proof of concept programs that spawn a business. It's a problem only for users of course, less so for th…

You mean they are going to charge enough money to account for the cost of distribution? That could even be a new business model -- charging people money and giving them stuff. Like software makers have done since the first personal computer or game console came out? You realize that retail stores were routinely charging 60%?

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#97

Post by yawz » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:22 PM UTC

This should be the standard across the board, but unfortunately we're too far from that. As a parent, it pisses me off to see not-age-appropriate advertisement shown to kids.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#98

Post by kristianc » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #41

colechristensen wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think where it is going is just fine. The reduction of tracking and ads is a good thing, but that there is going to be a FAANG that is explicitly encouraging this is great news. I would prefer if the market itself forced out tracking and ads. Provide a space for it and that space can compete with everything else and if we're lucky will wildly outcompete the competition. This is the kind of walled garden I want to s…

The market is never going to do that at large - but I hope someone somewhere manages to kill tracking and third party data-reselling into non-existence.

> The market is never going to do that at large - but I hope someone somewhere manages to kill tracking and third party data-reselling into non-existence.

Overall the market is moving away from third-party now, as it's simply a lot less effective. Everyone in the industry wants to be working with first-party data.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#99

Post by stcredzero » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

move-on-by wrote: post #91

dole wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much PBS Kids, "wonderful" being subjective in both directions, like anything.

PBS Kids includes 3rd party analytics

Whether something is the cultural successor to CTW isn't so much about the brand name. It's about quality, artistic integrity, and mission.

Re: “Apps intended for kids may not include third-party advertising or analytics”

#100

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 9:24 PM UTC

throwayEngineer wrote: post #60

But all Apple apps will continue to do this? You really need to drink the Apple koolaid to think this changes anything.

The only Apple app that has advertising is the App store. They've already stated that the games that will be a part of Apple Arcade won't have ads.