YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#501

Post by QualityReboot » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

neetdeth wrote: post #454

QualityReboot wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, we're taking another step in our hate speech policy by specifically prohibiting videos alleging that a group is superior in order to justify discrimination, segregation or exclusion based on qualities like age, gender, race, caste, religion, sexual orientation or veteran status. I wonder if things like the Freedom From Religion Foundation would qualify for a ban. Or a church that preaches that their god is t…

This is all a very interesting thought experiment, but you're supposing some attempt at logical consistency which will surely not be made. What this announcement actually means is that YouTube is going to become more politically active in their content curation. This is what a subset of their employees, as well as influential bluechecked Twitterati, have been lobbying for. As a progressive/neo-liberal institution, it…

You're exactly right, and maybe I should just be happy that YouTube is going to enforce political views that I mostly agree with, but the whole thing is a bit unsettling and definitely going to have unintended consequences.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#502

Post by a-afterglow » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

foldr wrote: post #425

lugg wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube started out as a way to empower people to post home videos on the internet, a place for every day people to share video. And you're right, it has always restricted illegal content. And that's a good line to draw. So.. What's illegal about this new content? Or what has changed that they now think they're ready to judge what is extreme and hateful? Or what has changed that they now think they even should?

Porn isn't illegal, but has always been banned on youtube.

But isn't it a platform for all ages? In which case, it would be illegal for YouTube to host porn, wouldn't it?

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#503

Post by pizzazzaro » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #499

fwip wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is what you meant, but that's what youtube is doing now. They've decided that these neo-Nazi videos are causing violence, so they've stepped in to remove those bad actors for the sake of everyone else.

[flagged]

Lol nice bait, troll.

When have Antifa, 3rd wave feminists, or any of it created mass shooters? The unspoken truth here is that this hate speech is creating and fueling that particular breed of violence.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#504

Post by radford-neal » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

Frondo wrote: post #423

CodiePetersen wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although any hateful speech is terrible of course, I think censoring like this is a bad idea. Like other conversations about freedom of speech on HN it will eventually lead to talking about banning non hateful but extreme ideas like flat earth and anti vax. While ridiculous as they are, I think it would be equally ridiculous to ban them. What's the line you draw when you decide what gets to be promoted. Maybe certain…

I'm also okay banning anti-vax ideas, in defense of the community in general, and in defense in specific of those vulnerable few who can't be immunized and rely on herd immunity. Foregoing vaccination imposes an as-yet-unaccounted externality on the community; you put everyone at risk by not vaccinating yourself or your kids, and there's no way for the vulnerable (those relying on herd immunity) to know who around th…

You're conflating three concepts: forcing people to be vaccinated, banning speech opposing compulsory vaccination, and banning speech arguing that vaccines are a bad idea. In a free society, only the first has any possible justification (based on harm to others if you aren't vaccinated). The second is core political speech. The third is core scientific speech.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#505

Post by fwip » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

josteink wrote: post #499

fwip wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is what you meant, but that's what youtube is doing now. They've decided that these neo-Nazi videos are causing violence, so they've stepped in to remove those bad actors for the sake of everyone else.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#506

Post by Faark » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #427

Faark wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also please be aware that you will see terms like "white" supremacy be used in these discussions instead of more appropriate terms like "Aryan" to make the topic easier to approach for an American audience.

I believe that's what is called "a distinction without a difference". You can argue that whatever your local xenophobic hatreds you have going on aren't technically white supremacy, because you have different historical and cultural understandings of race etc, but at the end of the day, your hating haters sure seem to hate basically the same people as our hating haters, so I'm not sure why it's worth arguing about th…

This is pretty much the point i tried to make... that there is no huge difference and it is totally fine to simplify to "white" in communities like these. But re-reading my comment, i can now see how it can be seen as nit-picking instead of approving of this idea.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#507

Post by deogeo » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

Kye wrote: post #462

deogeo wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not surprising there'd be groups advocating for that. They don't want to become a minority in their country, as both history and current events show that's a bad position to be in.

"Their country" seems to imply that it doesn't belong to people who immigrate legally. They're the majority of immigrants despite what people spreading hateful rhetoric try to tell you. https://www.pewhispanic.org/2019/06/03/facts-on-u-s-immigran... It belongs to them just as much as it does to people whose ancestors planted flags a handful of centuries ago.

> "Their country" seems to imply...

How else should the country they were born in, and are citizens of, be referred to? Without making it US specific, as my point is not limited to the US.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#508

Post by josteink » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

pizzazzaro wrote: post #503

josteink wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Lol nice bait, troll. When have Antifa, 3rd wave feminists, or any of it created mass shooters? The unspoken truth here is that this hate speech is creating and fueling that particular breed of violence.

> When have Antifa, 3rd wave feminists, or any of it created mass shooters?

If someone effectively manages to limit my liberties, does it matter if they used guns or not, or what other form of violence was involved?

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#509

Post by vkou » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #388

vkou wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but not for the war itself. Have you never heard of Lebensraum? Generalplan Ost?

Those were völkisch (as in "Germans are the best, we need that space for us"), not white supremacist (since Poles, Russians, European Jews etc are white as well). Hi. If you downvote factual statements, please leave a comment. It's annoying if you're using downvotes and flags as "I don't like that somebody says this". Write an argument, don't abuse moderation tools.

> not white supremacist (since Poles, Russians, European Jews etc are white as well).

Half the bloody point of white supremacy is that the supremacist is the one who chooses who is white enough to be in the in-group, and who is not.

The definition of white changes, based on who the supremacist wants to kill, displace, or enslave.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#510

Post by spamizbad » Wed, Jun 05, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #464

gamblor956 wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is he fearmongering? A white nationalist uprising is quite literally relatively recent European history, and resulted in the torture and slaughter of tens of millions. Before Al Queda, the West's biggest fear was domestic white nationalist terrorists like Timothy McVeigh. EDIT: It's very disturbing that so many people don't understand what the Nazi platform was all about. The supremacy of the "Aryan Race" was lit…

The battleground was fascism vs. capitalism vs. communism. Fascism was, at it's core, reactionairy to the rise of communism and it's dishonest to describe it simply as "white nationalism". Furthermore, for a "white nationalist" movement they spent a whole lot of time killing and oppressing other "whites".

Fascism started as a reaction to modernist political ideas that developed out of the enlightenment (like egalitarianism) and existential concerns like the perception of national decline (which fascism usually blames on decadence and libertine behaviors). It may have taken hold due to anti-communist sentiment, but that's separate from its philosophical underpinnings (which for fascism are a bit shaky)

Communism is problematic to them because it tries to eliminate social hierarchies deemphasizing national identity. Liberalism (in the classical sense) is problematic to them because of its (perceived) amoral decadence and its ability to empower "undesirable" "outsider" individuals to garner power inside a nation through wealth.