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YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

nytimes.com

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Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#481

Post by tomp »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #354
ravenstine wrote: post #107

I'm starting to think that comment sections on news sites are a really bad idea. At first I thought NPR and the like were cowards for removing theirs. It's bad enough that NYT can be pretty biased on its own, but the comment sections are always full of low-tier thinking that just push whatever narrative is currently in the Overton window. What I find distressing is how people remark that a telecom and advertising gia…

Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/22/rip-culture-war-thread... >The thing about an online comment section is that the guy who really likes pedophilia is going to start posting on every thread about sexual minorities “I’m glad those sexual minorities have their rights! Now it’s time to start arguing for pedophile rights!” followed by a ten thousand word manifesto. This person won’t use any racial slurs, won’…

That Slate Star Codex article is soooo good, and I suspect severely underrated.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#482

Post by oceanghost »

fwip wrote: post #433
kypro wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't my opinion. I will happily call people by whatever pronoun they wish to be called. That's just common decency in my opinion. That comment was in reference to this story, it looks like I got the quote wrong: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/journalist-sues-twitter-... I think there's a difference between how we should recognise someone socially and the reality of an individual's biology. What's worrying…

"In reality, you're not a woman, we're just pretending because we're polite" isn't a very pro-trans stance.

Give me a definition of "woman" that is acceptable to all parties involved.

Don't forget things like androgen insensitivity syndrome, infertile women, etc.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#483

Post by ndiscussion »

patagonia wrote: post #418
mbrameld wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The job doesn’t pay well. I think this is an outdated belief. Many officers earn 6 figure salaries in the US.

A quick google, the top three results said average was 50k-60k. One result said the top 10% make low 6 figures. I doubt the majority of officers in those lines are top 10%, almost by simple math.

Do you not consider an average 50-60k "high"?

That is more than basically anyone I know personally outside of software, and I'm not in a low COL area.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#484

Post by kypro »

fwip wrote: post #433
kypro wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't my opinion. I will happily call people by whatever pronoun they wish to be called. That's just common decency in my opinion. That comment was in reference to this story, it looks like I got the quote wrong: https://www.nationalreview.com/news/journalist-sues-twitter-... I think there's a difference between how we should recognise someone socially and the reality of an individual's biology. What's worrying…

"In reality, you're not a woman, we're just pretending because we're polite" isn't a very pro-trans stance.

It feels you're taking the least charitable interoperation of what I'm trying to say.

I believe trans women are "real women" in just about every way that matters. I only make an exception when I absolutely have to. For example, in sports, or in a medical context.

It might help to remember the word "women" is just a label we assign to people who share a certain common set of social and biological traits. And the majority of these traits trans women share, however in the case of trans women there are some exceptions. But it's not just trans people who don't fit cleanly into these groups, there are similar difficulties to be had with intersex people for example.

There are no easy answers here. Life isn't black and white. It's silly to think we can cleanly divide the whole of society into to clear categories.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#485

Post by fwip »

DuskStar wrote: post #450
fwip wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In reality, you're not a woman, we're just pretending because we're polite" isn't a very pro-trans stance.

But "trans women cannot (yet?) bear children" shouldn't be an anti-trans stance, either.

Is anyone saying otherwise? I haven't heard of anyone being banned for that.

N.B: what somebody says they are banned for and what they were actually banned for often differ.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#486

Post by ng12 »

0815test wrote: post #478
ng12 wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battleground was fascism vs. capitalism vs. communism. Fascism was, at it's core, reactionairy to the rise of communism and it's dishonest to describe it simply as "white nationalism". Furthermore, for a "white nationalist" movement they spent a whole lot of time killing and oppressing other "whites".

Fascism was not "reactionary". It was, in many ways, a sibling ideology to 'communism', but with glorification of violence, a broadly "irrational" (i.e. explicitly anti-intellectual, and almost relishing in the use of blatant propaganda as a means of influence) attitude to mass politics and either nationalist or (in the more extreme Nazi version) racially-supremacist ideology as major selling points. "White nationali…

> Fascism was not "reactionary"

Fascists gained power in Italy, Germany, and Spain as a direct result of anti-communist sentiment (and in the case of Germany, a failed communist revolution). Mussolini's early writings were directly proposing nationalism as the answer to communism's failures. Everywhere fascism had success it was because it was pitted against the threat of communism. I don't know how the rise of Fascism was anything but reactionary.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#487

Post by QualityReboot »

fwip wrote: post #431
QualityReboot wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you meant to say "You're not pro-LGBT if you think women aren't women." Why are you segregating "trans women" as different than just "women"?

Because trans women are the people being discussed, duh. If you were saying "tall women aren't women," the appropriate rejoinder is "yes, tall women are women," not the useless tautology "women are women."

My understanding is that most trans women don't want to be identified as such, and that "passing" is a really big deal.

"Tall" is an acceptable descriptor for a person, obvious to all and not usually very sensitive. "Trans" isn't like this and remarking on "how trans" someone is carries a very different meaning than remarking on "how tall" someone is.

Maybe it's still acceptable or useful to accept "trans women" as their own group, but eventually that will probably go away and "trans woman" will become a dated and bigoted term.

You may find yourself shocked that you ever used the term "trans" in the same way that it's now shocking that black people were once referred to as "colored".

Or alternatively, being trans might become an identity badge of honor, in the same way "gay" has in many places.

My point is that these things evolve over time, so either people are going to be allowed to make mistakes and have debates and figure things out in public, or we have to only use useless tautologies to describe people.

When you tell the GP (who claims to be pro-LGBT) that they're not pro-LGBT because they're struggling to speak correctly on the topic and they used the "wrong" language, you might not be having the effect you intended.

In this case, the GP mistakenly believes the dated idea that "gender" is a biological term, but enlightened folks are aware that gender is now a social construct. I think they simply meant "biologically male people are not female" instead of "trans women aren't women". The language is confusing because it's evolving, but getting everyone on the same page is going to require a lot of public errors that would be better met with debate than shaming.

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#489

Post by Retra »

HBKXNCUO wrote: post #259
Retra wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the world is a more violent place because of it. Nevertheless, there is big difference between the way violence is advocated for between moderates and extremists in terms of severity, frequency, and justification. I didn't ask you who advocates for violence, I asked you why you thought the unrestricted public speech of extremists leads to peace.

Please be specific. Whose political speech do you believe is going to result in more real world violence, and what is the chain of events that you foresee? I've already explained why I think restricting political speech results in increased real world violence. People are going to advocate for what they perceive as their interests, and if they can't do it peacefully, they're going to do it violently.

Why do you think they won't be able to do it peacefully?

Re: YouTube to Remove Thousands of Videos Pushing Extreme Views

#490

Post by chrisjc »

gamblor956 wrote: post #335
chrisjc wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> White supremacy was the cause for the worst wars of the 20th century Again, I think that statement is shaped by your perspective. I imagine a lot of Russian, Chinese and Africans would disagree with you about that.

White Supremacy was a key platform of the Nazi Party, which initiated World War II. Their definition of "white" including most of Western Europe but essentially none of Eastern Europe. While Slavs and Russians were better than the Roma (aka Gypsies) or Jews in Nazi eyes, they were accorded a lesser status than Germans or other Western Europeans. In absolute terms, more Russians died as a result of Nazi action than an…

> In absolute terms, more Russians died as a result of Nazi action than any other group.

Who's disputing this fact? Not me.

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